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Thank you for the feedback. > Google's inability to actually commit to long term support... This is _exactly_ what Google is doing in this case. We are provid

Thank you for the feedback. > Google's inability to actually commit to long term support... This is _exactly_ what Google is doing in this case. We are providing an SLA - a legal agreement of availability and support. These changes introduce a guaranteed availability of the management control plane.

sladey 7y ago
Shouldn't that be opt-in? The management control plane is not something we consider critical to operations. I'd happily accept if it was unavailable for 1 and a half minutes a day versus these additional costs.
- sethvargo 7y ago
  That's great feedback. I'll relay that to the product team. IANAL, but I think it would be legally challenging.
  - sladey 7y ago
    IANAL either, but I don't see why it would be? Just have a separate cluster type, e.g SLA Zonal, SLA Regional. The SLA already differentiates the current cluster types. Anthos Clusters are also not subject to any additional fees? And having it opt-in will save face with those users of GKE where an additional $73/m is significant.
  - waffle_ss 7y ago
    Hard to understand how it would be legally challenging. ISP's do it all the time when differentiating their business plans from residential. Both services run over the same infrastructure and you typically get the same/similar speeds, but a key difference is an SLA with the business plan.
  - bavell 7y ago
    Opt-in for the SLA and additional cluster cost would be fantastic. We run pretty small clusters but don't need any additional SLA's on top of what's already provided. Frankly we could care less about the control plane SLA.
  - merb 7y ago
    btw. I would prefer to have something like a cost reduce if the cluster runs 24/7. Currently we also do not need that amount of SLA. but we actually have a single cluster and are a really small customer that reall choose GKE, because of no management fee (i.e. nodes are really expensive compared to non cloud providers). But we never used more than one REGIONAL cluster (we also never spun up a new one, we only change workers). And now it will cost us money. What a shame. P.S.: german sites have the pricing wrong.
jerendy92 7y ago
Sure, in this case I can see that. I was referring to those four points with respect to Google services in general. I'm sure I don't need to dig up a list of features and services that have been merged, shuttered, price hiked or moved into a different product suite over the years. Admittedly a lot of the issues are with the GSuite side of things, but it's sad to see this coming to GCP as well. On a hopefully more constructive note, if this is the way it's going to be from now on, I would at least expect to see an exemption on such a management fee/SLA on preemptible nodes - having an SLA and management fee on the cluster whereby nodes can be killed in a 30 second window without prior warning seems to be a little more than pointless.
- sethvargo 7y ago
  Even if your worker nodes are pre-emptible, the master nodes are not. The management fee covers running those master nodes and many other core GCP integrations (like Stackdriver logging and other advanced functionality). Billing is computed on a per-second basis for each cluster. The total amount will be rounded to the nearest penny at the end of the month.
txomon 7y ago
He means that there was a sales pitch from all gcp sales guys to not charge for that. 99.95% is not enough IMO to charge 73$/mo. As someone else noted, it breaks a lot of recommended architectures where you would have auto provisioning and a lot of clusters to separate concerns and keep costs down. Finally, the pricing changes are starting to look like a pattern, every time Google deems the usage of a product is good enough, they will increase the price. They are the Ryanair of the cloud. Edit 1: moreover, it will increase the cost of composer, and on top of that, the recommended pattern where composer is paired with a kubernetes cluster for executing the workloads
- allendoerfer 7y ago
  > They are the Ryanair of the cloud. Isn't Ryanair literally the Ryanair of the cloud(s)?
- Niksko 7y ago
  EKS only gives you 99.9% uptime, and I'm uncertain as to whether you could achieve more than 99.9% uptime on your own by DIYing your cluster in a public cloud provider without doing multi-region.
  - physicles 7y ago
    To put that in perspective, three 9’s allows you about 9 hours of downtime a year, which will certainly require multi-region and a dedicated ops team. Two and a half 9’s is a whole different story. We achieved about 20 hours of downtime last year even without HA on k8s bare metal in Alibaba cloud. But I’m uncertain whether that’s a feat we can repeat this year.
- bartread 7y ago
  > Finally, the pricing changes are starting to look like a pattern, every time Google deems the usage of a product is good enough, they will increase the price. To be fair this is hardly new and by no means limited to Google. Any number of SaaS startups that have survived to at least moderate success have done similar things. Look at UserVoice as an example: started out with a free tier plus some reasonable paid tiers with transparent pricing, then a year or two back killed the free tier and moved to a non-transparent "enterprise" pricing model with absolutely exhorbitant fees. Plenty of other companies offer free to build their userbase and reach, then either water down the free tier, or remove it entirely. It's practically the SV modus operandi for the last decade.
notyourday 7y ago
> We are providing an SLA - a legal agreement of availability and support. Do I still have to pay the bill first, fill out forms, get account managers involved, at some point receive a partial credit, and repeat this until the delta between what I was expected as the SLA credit and what I got as the SLA credit is less than the cost of the time to fight for another cycle?

sladey 7y ago

Shouldn't that be opt-in? The management control plane is not something we consider critical to operations. I'd happily accept if it was unavailable for 1 and a half minutes a day versus these additional costs.

sethvargo 7y ago
That's great feedback. I'll relay that to the product team. IANAL, but I think it would be legally challenging.
- sladey 7y ago
  IANAL either, but I don't see why it would be? Just have a separate cluster type, e.g SLA Zonal, SLA Regional. The SLA already differentiates the current cluster types. Anthos Clusters are also not subject to any additional fees? And having it opt-in will save face with those users of GKE where an additional $73/m is significant.
- waffle_ss 7y ago
  Hard to understand how it would be legally challenging. ISP's do it all the time when differentiating their business plans from residential. Both services run over the same infrastructure and you typically get the same/similar speeds, but a key difference is an SLA with the business plan.
- bavell 7y ago
  Opt-in for the SLA and additional cluster cost would be fantastic. We run pretty small clusters but don't need any additional SLA's on top of what's already provided. Frankly we could care less about the control plane SLA.
- merb 7y ago
  btw. I would prefer to have something like a cost reduce if the cluster runs 24/7. Currently we also do not need that amount of SLA. but we actually have a single cluster and are a really small customer that reall choose GKE, because of no management fee (i.e. nodes are really expensive compared to non cloud providers). But we never used more than one REGIONAL cluster (we also never spun up a new one, we only change workers). And now it will cost us money. What a shame. P.S.: german sites have the pricing wrong.

jerendy92 7y ago

Sure, in this case I can see that. I was referring to those four points with respect to Google services in general. I'm sure I don't need to dig up a list of features and services that have been merged, shuttered, price hiked or moved into a different product suite over the years. Admittedly a lot of the issues are with the GSuite side of things, but it's sad to see this coming to GCP as well. On a hopefully more constructive note, if this is the way it's going to be from now on, I would at least expect to see an exemption on such a management fee/SLA on preemptible nodes - having an SLA and management fee on the cluster whereby nodes can be killed in a 30 second window without prior warning seems to be a little more than pointless.

sethvargo 7y ago
Even if your worker nodes are pre-emptible, the master nodes are not. The management fee covers running those master nodes and many other core GCP integrations (like Stackdriver logging and other advanced functionality). Billing is computed on a per-second basis for each cluster. The total amount will be rounded to the nearest penny at the end of the month.

txomon 7y ago

He means that there was a sales pitch from all gcp sales guys to not charge for that. 99.95% is not enough IMO to charge 73$/mo. As someone else noted, it breaks a lot of recommended architectures where you would have auto provisioning and a lot of clusters to separate concerns and keep costs down. Finally, the pricing changes are starting to look like a pattern, every time Google deems the usage of a product is good enough, they will increase the price. They are the Ryanair of the cloud. Edit 1: moreover, it will increase the cost of composer, and on top of that, the recommended pattern where composer is paired with a kubernetes cluster for executing the workloads

allendoerfer 7y ago
> They are the Ryanair of the cloud. Isn't Ryanair literally the Ryanair of the cloud(s)?
Niksko 7y ago
EKS only gives you 99.9% uptime, and I'm uncertain as to whether you could achieve more than 99.9% uptime on your own by DIYing your cluster in a public cloud provider without doing multi-region.
- physicles 7y ago
  To put that in perspective, three 9’s allows you about 9 hours of downtime a year, which will certainly require multi-region and a dedicated ops team. Two and a half 9’s is a whole different story. We achieved about 20 hours of downtime last year even without HA on k8s bare metal in Alibaba cloud. But I’m uncertain whether that’s a feat we can repeat this year.
bartread 7y ago
> Finally, the pricing changes are starting to look like a pattern, every time Google deems the usage of a product is good enough, they will increase the price. To be fair this is hardly new and by no means limited to Google. Any number of SaaS startups that have survived to at least moderate success have done similar things. Look at UserVoice as an example: started out with a free tier plus some reasonable paid tiers with transparent pricing, then a year or two back killed the free tier and moved to a non-transparent "enterprise" pricing model with absolutely exhorbitant fees. Plenty of other companies offer free to build their userbase and reach, then either water down the free tier, or remove it entirely. It's practically the SV modus operandi for the last decade.

notyourday 7y ago

> We are providing an SLA - a legal agreement of availability and support. Do I still have to pay the bill first, fill out forms, get account managers involved, at some point receive a partial credit, and repeat this until the delta between what I was expected as the SLA credit and what I got as the SLA credit is less than the cost of the time to fight for another cycle?