5 ms·

I'm slightly confused; is the story that the state of New York bought equipment for Tesla worth $300 million dollars, and a sixth of it is currently unused (mea

by mft_ 7y ago

I'm slightly confused; is the story that the state of New York bought equipment for Tesla worth $300 million dollars, and a sixth of it is currently unused (meaning five sixths of it is being used currently)?

new_realist 7y ago
Considering that Tesla will longer make solar cells in that factory (Panasonic is ending the relationship and withdrawing by September) I’d guess that it will all be unused shortly; this is just what has obviously been relocated so far.
- atonse 7y ago
  What am I missing here? Is there any reason why another company can't just take over, seeing as they could probably get the equipment at a great discount?
  - tfolbrecht 7y ago
    If Panasonic’s leaving I’m assuming it wasn’t that sweet of a deal. Even if someone else comes in will the state off the same terms? Can this hypothetical company fulfill their side? Is there somewhere greener?
  - stefan_ 7y ago
    You are missing that it makes absolutely zero sense to make solar cells in NY. Never has. The fact that SolarCity is such a failure just accelerated this deal blowing up.
- natch 7y ago
  > Considering that Tesla will longer make solar cells in that factory Solar cells? Panasonic was making battery cells for Tesla. Are you mixing up different uses of the word “cell”?
  - CrazyStat 7y ago
    Panasonic was making battery cells for Tesla in Nevada and solar cells for Tesla in New York. This article is about the latter.
    - natch 7y ago
      TIL, thanks.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
rjdagost 7y ago
The history of the Buffalo "gigafactory" is rather sordid... In a nutshell, Tesla and its subsidiaries made large employment and economic growth promises to the state of NY in exchange for massive subsidies (almost $1B total). The state wanted to stimulate growth in an economically depressed region, but those growth expectations have not materialized at all. And now, at least some of the NY state taxpayer financed equipment is apparently being shipped elsewhere or sold instead of helping the economy of Western NY. That's the story here. But the entire story goes much deeper. Tesla fans don't like to admit it, but the Buffalo "gigafactory" project has been a textbook example of government waste on corporate welfare. Multiple people have gone to jail for corruption / bid rigging on the project. Tesla's subsidies were supposed to be contingent on achieving hiring and economic output goals, but those original requirements have been retroactively watered down multiple times so as to prevent subsidy clawbacks. A local journalist (Dan Telvock) has been detailing considerably more chicanery that has gone done at the Buffalo gigafactory.
- xyzzyz 7y ago
  How much of these subsidies are cash, and how much are tax breaks? Cash subsidies from taxpayers are bad, I agree, but at least with the tax breaks, the taxpayers are not worse off: if the alternative is no factory at all, then they don't lose anything on the tax breaks, because that tax revenue wouldn't have had existed anyway.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  This is just not accurate. The Buffalo plant economic stimulus package had a clawback provision if Tesla doesn't meet employment milestones. They have been meeting those milestones and so will not have to pay the fee: https://buffalonews.com/2020/02/13/tesla-looks-like-a-good-bet-to-hit-its-april-job-target/ https://buffalonews.com/2020/02/13/tesla-looks-like-a-good-b... I know people want to make this into some corruption scandal (blaming it either on the state or on Tesla or both), but the state did their job by putting these employment requirements in their contract WITH PENALTY, and Tesla is doing their job by hiring enough people to avoid the penalty. What's really the problem, here? 5/6ths utilization of capital equipment seems pretty good, particularly in a fast evolving field like solar power (where things like bifacial panels and Tesla's integrated solar roof weren't really a thing when the deal was first signed).

by mft_ 7y ago

new_realist 7y ago

Considering that Tesla will longer make solar cells in that factory (Panasonic is ending the relationship and withdrawing by September) I’d guess that it will all be unused shortly; this is just what has obviously been relocated so far.

atonse 7y ago
What am I missing here? Is there any reason why another company can't just take over, seeing as they could probably get the equipment at a great discount?
- tfolbrecht 7y ago
  If Panasonic’s leaving I’m assuming it wasn’t that sweet of a deal. Even if someone else comes in will the state off the same terms? Can this hypothetical company fulfill their side? Is there somewhere greener?
- stefan_ 7y ago
  You are missing that it makes absolutely zero sense to make solar cells in NY. Never has. The fact that SolarCity is such a failure just accelerated this deal blowing up.
natch 7y ago
> Considering that Tesla will longer make solar cells in that factory Solar cells? Panasonic was making battery cells for Tesla. Are you mixing up different uses of the word “cell”?
- CrazyStat 7y ago
  Panasonic was making battery cells for Tesla in Nevada and solar cells for Tesla in New York. This article is about the latter.
  - natch 7y ago
    TIL, thanks.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

rjdagost 7y ago

The history of the Buffalo "gigafactory" is rather sordid... In a nutshell, Tesla and its subsidiaries made large employment and economic growth promises to the state of NY in exchange for massive subsidies (almost $1B total). The state wanted to stimulate growth in an economically depressed region, but those growth expectations have not materialized at all. And now, at least some of the NY state taxpayer financed equipment is apparently being shipped elsewhere or sold instead of helping the economy of Western NY. That's the story here. But the entire story goes much deeper. Tesla fans don't like to admit it, but the Buffalo "gigafactory" project has been a textbook example of government waste on corporate welfare. Multiple people have gone to jail for corruption / bid rigging on the project. Tesla's subsidies were supposed to be contingent on achieving hiring and economic output goals, but those original requirements have been retroactively watered down multiple times so as to prevent subsidy clawbacks. A local journalist (Dan Telvock) has been detailing considerably more chicanery that has gone done at the Buffalo gigafactory.

xyzzyz 7y ago
How much of these subsidies are cash, and how much are tax breaks? Cash subsidies from taxpayers are bad, I agree, but at least with the tax breaks, the taxpayers are not worse off: if the alternative is no factory at all, then they don't lose anything on the tax breaks, because that tax revenue wouldn't have had existed anyway.
Robotbeat 7y ago
This is just not accurate. The Buffalo plant economic stimulus package had a clawback provision if Tesla doesn't meet employment milestones. They have been meeting those milestones and so will not have to pay the fee: https://buffalonews.com/2020/02/13/tesla-looks-like-a-good-bet-to-hit-its-april-job-target/ https://buffalonews.com/2020/02/13/tesla-looks-like-a-good-b... I know people want to make this into some corruption scandal (blaming it either on the state or on Tesla or both), but the state did their job by putting these employment requirements in their contract WITH PENALTY, and Tesla is doing their job by hiring enough people to avoid the penalty. What's really the problem, here? 5/6ths utilization of capital equipment seems pretty good, particularly in a fast evolving field like solar power (where things like bifacial panels and Tesla's integrated solar roof weren't really a thing when the deal was first signed).