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I've had severe cramps in my legs/feet many times in deep ocean water with no-one around. If you drown from a foot cramp you are not a strong swimmer.

by keanzu 7y ago

AstralStorm 7y ago
Or you're incorrectly trained. You should always be able to flip and float on your back if push comes to shove, and in that position you can swim just using your arms.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Floating on your back is only possible for a subset of the population. There are plenty of people who simply sink when on their back, and must kick or more their arms constantly to stay afloat. FWIW
  - ben7799 7y ago
    This is improper training. (Former WSI here) Especially in the ocean. The Salinity in the ocean makes it very easy for a well trained swimmer to float. People who sink on their back haven't been trained to maintain enough air in their lungs and/or use minimal arm/leg effort to assist. Also they are probably not leaning their head back far enough. (Head position being a massive component of the problem for non-swimmers.) Anyone who is a "swimmer" can float prone or supine with minimal effort and work out a foot or stomach cramp. I couldn't even count the # of times I've had foot cramps while swimming and stopped and floated and massaged the cramp out. Floating prone is always the better solution for working out a cramp. I taught adults in private lessons who had this "problem". It goes away with training.
    - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
      And at Scout Camp each year we always had some. It doesn't go away with training. Whether its body fat or lung capacity, whatever, they simply sink to the bottom no matter how big a breath they take or the 'head position' explanation. They can be 'swimmer' and still not be physically capable of floating on their back. The ocean is a different matter I'm sure.
      - eric_h 7y ago
        When I was a kid I would sink with a full breath of air (in a pool). I learned the back float and the dead man's float in swim lessons but I still needed to move some water with my hands to stay on the surface. I enjoyed the fact that swimming in the ocean was easier since I didn't have to exert myself at all to float. Nowadays my BMI is such that I float in all bodies of water ;)
      - ben7799 7y ago
        There are always people who fail at swim lessons just like anything else, it's more that. It's a tough problem to solve. I have no more than 10% body fat, I have no issues. But I also taught adults who were similarly low body fat and some I succeeded in teaching and some I did not. Consciously controlling your breathing is a big deal in many aspects of swimming & diving. It has a major effect on buoyancy. You can't breathe normally/unconsciously swimming/floating. It is always controlled. Likewise you must keep breathing when diving with compressed air.
        JoeAltmaier 7y ago
        Again, no. These kids don't fail at swimming. Unless somebody like you autocratically says "You can't float on your back! You fail!" They're mastering all the strokes, diving to the bottom and retrieving weights, training for the mile swim. They just don't float like you do.
- matthewowen 7y ago
  "incorrectly trained" is what people typically mean when they say "not a strong swimmer". anyone who has swum alongside 10 year olds on swim teams will understand that you can swim quite strongly even without being "strong" in the muscular sense.
  - keanzu 7y ago
    Exactly it isn't physical strength. A strong swimmer is someone who removes "drowning" from the list of options as long as they remain conscious. This is a critical point when boating - friends have asked why I always wear a lifejacket when on a small boat; as a strong swimmer surely I have no need of one. In a boating accident the "conscious" part isn't guaranteed. Get hit by the boom and go overboard and you are going to need that lifejacket.

I've had severe cramps in my legs/feet many times in deep ocean water with no-one around. If you drown from a foot cramp you are not a strong swimmer.

by keanzu 7y ago

I've had severe cramps in my legs/feet many times in deep ocean water with no-one around. If you drown from a foot cramp you are not a strong swimmer.

AstralStorm 7y ago

Or you're incorrectly trained. You should always be able to flip and float on your back if push comes to shove, and in that position you can swim just using your arms.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago
Floating on your back is only possible for a subset of the population. There are plenty of people who simply sink when on their back, and must kick or more their arms constantly to stay afloat. FWIW
- ben7799 7y ago
  This is improper training. (Former WSI here) Especially in the ocean. The Salinity in the ocean makes it very easy for a well trained swimmer to float. People who sink on their back haven't been trained to maintain enough air in their lungs and/or use minimal arm/leg effort to assist. Also they are probably not leaning their head back far enough. (Head position being a massive component of the problem for non-swimmers.) Anyone who is a "swimmer" can float prone or supine with minimal effort and work out a foot or stomach cramp. I couldn't even count the # of times I've had foot cramps while swimming and stopped and floated and massaged the cramp out. Floating prone is always the better solution for working out a cramp. I taught adults in private lessons who had this "problem". It goes away with training.
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    And at Scout Camp each year we always had some. It doesn't go away with training. Whether its body fat or lung capacity, whatever, they simply sink to the bottom no matter how big a breath they take or the 'head position' explanation. They can be 'swimmer' and still not be physically capable of floating on their back. The ocean is a different matter I'm sure.
    - eric_h 7y ago
      When I was a kid I would sink with a full breath of air (in a pool). I learned the back float and the dead man's float in swim lessons but I still needed to move some water with my hands to stay on the surface. I enjoyed the fact that swimming in the ocean was easier since I didn't have to exert myself at all to float. Nowadays my BMI is such that I float in all bodies of water ;)
    - ben7799 7y ago
      There are always people who fail at swim lessons just like anything else, it's more that. It's a tough problem to solve. I have no more than 10% body fat, I have no issues. But I also taught adults who were similarly low body fat and some I succeeded in teaching and some I did not. Consciously controlling your breathing is a big deal in many aspects of swimming & diving. It has a major effect on buoyancy. You can't breathe normally/unconsciously swimming/floating. It is always controlled. Likewise you must keep breathing when diving with compressed air.
      - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
        Again, no. These kids don't fail at swimming. Unless somebody like you autocratically says "You can't float on your back! You fail!" They're mastering all the strokes, diving to the bottom and retrieving weights, training for the mile swim. They just don't float like you do.
matthewowen 7y ago
"incorrectly trained" is what people typically mean when they say "not a strong swimmer". anyone who has swum alongside 10 year olds on swim teams will understand that you can swim quite strongly even without being "strong" in the muscular sense.
- keanzu 7y ago
  Exactly it isn't physical strength. A strong swimmer is someone who removes "drowning" from the list of options as long as they remain conscious. This is a critical point when boating - friends have asked why I always wear a lifejacket when on a small boat; as a strong swimmer surely I have no need of one. In a boating accident the "conscious" part isn't guaranteed. Get hit by the boom and go overboard and you are going to need that lifejacket.