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You're talking about an ability, Iain Banks was talking about some unknown bit of physics, a field or somesuch. From what do you posit this ability to "instant

You're talking about an ability, Iain Banks was talking about some unknown bit of physics, a field or somesuch. From what do you posit this ability to "instantiate one specific abstract into a physical item" comes from, and why do you think only wetware can do it? Reading it again, I think you might be talking about Qualia.

RashHeuristics 7y ago
The introspective ability to hold abstract concepts in the mind is the source of the statement that humans can do so. It is what Aristotle called the intellectual soul, not qualia. Qualia is an experience and has no relation to holding abstract concepts. As I already wrote, Turing machines cannot do it for they suffer from multiple realizability, any abstract concept can be implemented in multiple physical constructs and any physical construct can be interpreted to be any number of different abstract items. I have not written that only "wetware" can do it, I have written that turing machines cannot do it and that no purely physical construct can do it (including purely newtonian/quantum wetware).
- Joker_vD 7y ago
  Uh... but the neural networks (and Bayesian networks) do hold abstract concepts, and are implementable by Turing machines. So it appears that your assertion is wrong.
  - RashHeuristics 7y ago
    They do not hold concepts, they are simply physical items behaving in accord with physical principles. You as a human interpret them (wrongly) to hold concepts. You can as well interpret them to be something else. None of your interpretations change the physics and the physics have no mention of abstract concepts and can be interpreted to be any number of things. None of the interpretations make that particular interpretation a concrete implementation of it.
- codeulike 7y ago
  So if we are not purely physical constructs, what are we? Are you a dualist?
  - RashHeuristics 7y ago
    human
    - codeulike 7y ago
      Are you are dualist? In the sense of Descartes' Dualism?

RashHeuristics 7y ago

The introspective ability to hold abstract concepts in the mind is the source of the statement that humans can do so. It is what Aristotle called the intellectual soul, not qualia. Qualia is an experience and has no relation to holding abstract concepts. As I already wrote, Turing machines cannot do it for they suffer from multiple realizability, any abstract concept can be implemented in multiple physical constructs and any physical construct can be interpreted to be any number of different abstract items. I have not written that only "wetware" can do it, I have written that turing machines cannot do it and that no purely physical construct can do it (including purely newtonian/quantum wetware).

Joker_vD 7y ago
Uh... but the neural networks (and Bayesian networks) do hold abstract concepts, and are implementable by Turing machines. So it appears that your assertion is wrong.
- RashHeuristics 7y ago
  They do not hold concepts, they are simply physical items behaving in accord with physical principles. You as a human interpret them (wrongly) to hold concepts. You can as well interpret them to be something else. None of your interpretations change the physics and the physics have no mention of abstract concepts and can be interpreted to be any number of things. None of the interpretations make that particular interpretation a concrete implementation of it.
codeulike 7y ago
So if we are not purely physical constructs, what are we? Are you a dualist?
- RashHeuristics 7y ago
  human
  - codeulike 7y ago
    Are you are dualist? In the sense of Descartes' Dualism?