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Just out of curiosity: there was a thread on Matrix, started by a dev of an alternate homeserver implementation[1] (also covered later by [2]). He pointed out (

by esjeon 7y ago

Just out of curiosity: there was a thread on Matrix, started by a dev of an alternate homeserver implementation[1] (also covered later by [2]). He pointed out (1) incomplete spec preventing 3rd party implementations, and forces reverse-enginerring of the reference (2) project/spec ownership problem. I think (2) is already ironed out, but not sure how the protocol spec(1) is doing. How are community-based servers doing? I heard Matrix is intentionally putting implementation ahead of spec, which isn't exactly nice... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19365968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19365968 [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19417791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19417791

Arathorn 7y ago
Speaking as project lead for Matrix, we of course encourage as many implementations as possible of all parts of the ecosystem, including servers. The issues raised by that developer are entirely due to their destructive behaviour rather than any illwill towards community developers, as per the thread at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418111. In terms of the spec being incomplete a year ago... yes, it was still a WIP and in beta. We exited beta with a complete spec in June 2019, as per https://matrix.org/blog/2019/06/11/introducing-matrix-1-0-and-the-matrix-org-foundation https://matrix.org/blog/2019/06/11/introducing-matrix-1-0-an.... Since then, on the server side, development on Dendrite has resumed in earnest - and there is zero overlap between those working on it and the Synapse developers & team. Other community servers are making slower progress, but this is not due to antagonism towards the community, but because it's quite a lot of work. I suspect folks have also been scared off by fear & uncertainty from the kind of threads you linked. Finally, "intentionally putting implementation ahead of spec" is absolutely critical for Matrix. We draft proposals, we implement them, and only if they are shown to work in the field do we merge them into the spec. We believe this is something that XMPP and others got monumentally wrong, and a very desirable and nice property indeed.
- esjeon 7y ago
  Thanks for the reply, and sorry if I reminded you of bad memories. But now I can wholeheartedly say I support Matrix. I’m also glad to hear that there’s the diversity sprouting, since I believe it is the best way to put the specification on test. And I didn’t realized there are proposals openly being worked on[1]. I think I missed it while browsing through the site. Anyways, thanks for all your hard work. Matrix will surely help a lot of people, including the open source community. [1]: https://matrix.org/docs/spec/proposals#work-in-progress https://matrix.org/docs/spec/proposals#work-in-progress
  - Arathorn 7y ago
    np. btw, we publish a test suite (which is now approaching a full compliance test suite) at http://github.com/matrix-org/sytest http://github.com/matrix-org/sytest for anyone in the community wanting to implement servers, as another way to try to support & accelerate server dev. Diversity ftw (when it's not destructive).

by esjeon 7y ago

Arathorn 7y ago

Speaking as project lead for Matrix, we of course encourage as many implementations as possible of all parts of the ecosystem, including servers. The issues raised by that developer are entirely due to their destructive behaviour rather than any illwill towards community developers, as per the thread at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418111. In terms of the spec being incomplete a year ago... yes, it was still a WIP and in beta. We exited beta with a complete spec in June 2019, as per https://matrix.org/blog/2019/06/11/introducing-matrix-1-0-and-the-matrix-org-foundation https://matrix.org/blog/2019/06/11/introducing-matrix-1-0-an.... Since then, on the server side, development on Dendrite has resumed in earnest - and there is zero overlap between those working on it and the Synapse developers & team. Other community servers are making slower progress, but this is not due to antagonism towards the community, but because it's quite a lot of work. I suspect folks have also been scared off by fear & uncertainty from the kind of threads you linked. Finally, "intentionally putting implementation ahead of spec" is absolutely critical for Matrix. We draft proposals, we implement them, and only if they are shown to work in the field do we merge them into the spec. We believe this is something that XMPP and others got monumentally wrong, and a very desirable and nice property indeed.

esjeon 7y ago
Thanks for the reply, and sorry if I reminded you of bad memories. But now I can wholeheartedly say I support Matrix. I’m also glad to hear that there’s the diversity sprouting, since I believe it is the best way to put the specification on test. And I didn’t realized there are proposals openly being worked on[1]. I think I missed it while browsing through the site. Anyways, thanks for all your hard work. Matrix will surely help a lot of people, including the open source community. [1]: https://matrix.org/docs/spec/proposals#work-in-progress https://matrix.org/docs/spec/proposals#work-in-progress
- Arathorn 7y ago
  np. btw, we publish a test suite (which is now approaching a full compliance test suite) at http://github.com/matrix-org/sytest http://github.com/matrix-org/sytest for anyone in the community wanting to implement servers, as another way to try to support & accelerate server dev. Diversity ftw (when it's not destructive).