5 ms·

Despite the title, the heart of the article is really about a Wuhan man's disenchantment with his authoritarian government, by way of the Coronavirus crisis

by _bxg1 7y ago

whatshisface 7y ago
It is not off the mark, if the CCP had been better about seeing the truth they could have eliminated the virus when only 100 people had it. Instead they suppressed news of it while doing nothing, all while the virus ran around getting the better of them. It is too bad for the CCP that the Chinese people are not the only things in China to control!
- azurezyq 7y ago
  And now CDC is doing the exact same thing in US by not testing extensively, even though they are aware of community spreads. My friends in Seattle area are in great fear.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    This is certainly a wakeup call for anyone who thinks that the US federal bureaucracy is immune to dumb authoritarian tactics. Hopefully this will put a damper on all of those armchair dictators who say things like, "the null policy is still a policy and deserves just as much skepticism." If hospitals had not been prevented by the FDA from using their own machines to run tests, the CDC testing shortage would not have mattered.
  - williw 7y ago
    CDC botched the first test kits. There was no way to test anyway. Fortunately, FDA approved state developed test kits.
    - davidw 7y ago
      It still seems like they're way behind in testing compared to, say, Italy, which for a while at least was testing sick people and everyone they had come into contact with.
    - whatshisface 7y ago
      No, hospitals had testing machines. They were banned from using them.
      - backupcavalry 7y ago
        Not calling you a liar, but I haven't heard this part - got any citations?
        whatshisface 7y ago
        Former FDA director: (would have linked this originally but I wrote the above reply on the go) https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1224042220665307137 https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1224042220...
  - Leary 7y ago
    There were news that China's health authorities in Hubei and Beijing told local testing companies to return positive samples or destroy those samples during the crucial early days of the spread of the virus[1]. [1]https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/how-early-signs-of-the-coronavirus-were-spotted-spread-and-throttled-in-china https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/how-early-signs-... Political and censorship considerations aside, one possible reason for doing this could've been to ensure that the tests were all centralized and "valid" while preventing accidental leakage of the virus from local testing companies. Yet this kind of policy precisely prevented the virus from being quickly identified. The CDC's focus on the validity of the tests and its refusal to let local hospitals test for the virus mirrors this mistake. Even if the CDC did not actively try to suppress information, it is acting too slow.
- other_herbert 7y ago
  There's also the potluck dinner with what sounds like all of the city... https://www.ibtimes.sg/focus-wuhan-potluck-dinner-cpc-fires-party-leader-hubei-amid-sharp-spike-deaths-39328 https://www.ibtimes.sg/focus-wuhan-potluck-dinner-cpc-fires-... (midway down the article) I think we may not have even heard about the virus if not for this Edit: relevant portion: Ill-advised potluck dinner helped spread the virus Another major perceived lapse of the Wuhan party authorities was their decision to let a large public feast go ahead in January despite the fact that there were clear signs that an epidemic was gathering pace. The local government had controversially allowed nearly 40,000 families to gather and share food as part of the Chinese New Year festival even as deaths from the virus were increasing. It later turned out that at least 10 cases of coronavirus infection were reported from among the participants of the feast on January 18, raising fears that the event must have accelerated the spread of the infection in Wuhan.
  - borkt 7y ago
    Hmm, kind of like SXSW planning to go ahead.
    - supernovae 7y ago
      I chuckled.. and I live here...
- bakuninsbart 7y ago
  Honest question though: Which country would handle it better? A commenter below mentioned the US, but the reaction here in Germany has also been ridiculously slow and very lacking in both the political department as well as healthcare officials. An overwhelming majority of NHS medics doesn't think the UK is prepared either. [https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/02/coronavirus-just-eight-out-of-1600-doctors-in-poll-say-nhs-is-ready https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/02/coronavirus-...) Our lower population densities and much higher hygene standards make it less likely for a breakout to start here, but our dealing with a pandemic is at least as frighteningly incompetent as the chinese response.
  - _bxg1 7y ago
    I think I read that South Korea is doing a great job, despite being hit hard
  - davidw 7y ago
    We probably won't know until a year or so. Europe at least will treat everyone, so you won't have people avoiding doctors/hospitals because they can't pay.
    - rvnx 7y ago
      It's not really like this in Europe, not sure what made you think all medical care was free ? There are many cases where you are left on the side of the road in Europe too. It's certainly better than in the US, but far from free for everyone.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        I don't know of a single case of someone going bankrupt here due to medical bils. Feel free to supply examples to the contrary, I'm quite interested in that.
      - neilsense 7y ago
        It can vary country by country, as you'd imagine it would seeing as Europe is a large place, but it's so such a crazy notion to say that you'll most likely find some care in Europe if you're unwell and poor - definitely more so than in the US.
- incompatible 7y ago
  Iran, South Korea, Italy didn't manage to stop it at 100 people either, even with advance warning.
- carterehsmith 7y ago
  >> if the CCP had been better about seeing the truth they could have eliminated the virus when only 100 people had it Are there any "better" governments that eliminated e.g. cold or flu virus "when only 100 people had it"? I guess not. Cold and flu are common around the world. Hard to contain, and the containment would cause too much disruption and cost. So we learned to live with cold and flu.
- Bendingo 7y ago
  > they could have eliminated the virus when only 100 people had it This is simply speculation and not credible. > while the virus ran around getting the better of them In 6 months time, most (or all) western countries will look back and wish they had handled the virus as well as China.
the-pigeon 7y ago
It just reads like an anti-Chinese propaganda piece. Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of Chinese people are very disenfranchised by their government. But a lot of them love it too. But western media always focuses on those that dislike it. Which is not a balanced perspective of their people.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- muglug 7y ago
  Given that putting your name to public criticism is a career-ending move in China, I think it's great that western media gives dissidents a voice.
- unishark 7y ago
  I don't know that any country's media gives a balanced perspective of another country. They just cover the stories that are interesting enough to repeat in their own country. "most people are doing just fine over here" is generally not such a story.
- socialdemocrat 7y ago
  It read like an authentic account from someone living there. Your response in contrast sounds like paid for propaganda in favor of the CCP. I read all sorts of descriptions of China. I would say in general the news is often too positive. Xi has increased dictatorial powers substantially. The internment of Ughuiyers is a massive human rights abuse they get little criticism for. Not to mention the relentless push to end any sliver of democracy and freedom in Hong Kong. Freedom in China is regressing under Xi and that is a serious cause for concern.
  - dang 7y ago
    > Your response in contrast sounds like paid for propaganda in favor of the CCP. That breaks the site guidelines. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do this again. Also, please stop posting nationalistic flamebait to HN. We've already had to ask you this.
borkt 7y ago
Yeah, what is the point of a quarantine if they give you a warning and allow you to shop and leave the city? By very nature of his description it has worked as hoped.
- socialdemocrat 7y ago
  Problem is you risk killing more people with the quarantine than due to the virus if it is too draconian. You need some flexibility to let people get food.

Despite the title, the heart of the article is really about a Wuhan man's disenchantment with his authoritarian government, by way of the Coronavirus crisis

by _bxg1 7y ago

Despite the title, the heart of the article is really about a Wuhan man's disenchantment with his authoritarian government, by way of the Coronavirus crisis

whatshisface 7y ago

It is not off the mark, if the CCP had been better about seeing the truth they could have eliminated the virus when only 100 people had it. Instead they suppressed news of it while doing nothing, all while the virus ran around getting the better of them. It is too bad for the CCP that the Chinese people are not the only things in China to control!

azurezyq 7y ago
And now CDC is doing the exact same thing in US by not testing extensively, even though they are aware of community spreads. My friends in Seattle area are in great fear.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  This is certainly a wakeup call for anyone who thinks that the US federal bureaucracy is immune to dumb authoritarian tactics. Hopefully this will put a damper on all of those armchair dictators who say things like, "the null policy is still a policy and deserves just as much skepticism." If hospitals had not been prevented by the FDA from using their own machines to run tests, the CDC testing shortage would not have mattered.
- williw 7y ago
  CDC botched the first test kits. There was no way to test anyway. Fortunately, FDA approved state developed test kits.
  - davidw 7y ago
    It still seems like they're way behind in testing compared to, say, Italy, which for a while at least was testing sick people and everyone they had come into contact with.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    No, hospitals had testing machines. They were banned from using them.
    - backupcavalry 7y ago
      Not calling you a liar, but I haven't heard this part - got any citations?
      - whatshisface 7y ago
        Former FDA director: (would have linked this originally but I wrote the above reply on the go) https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1224042220665307137 https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1224042220...
- Leary 7y ago
  There were news that China's health authorities in Hubei and Beijing told local testing companies to return positive samples or destroy those samples during the crucial early days of the spread of the virus[1]. [1]https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/how-early-signs-of-the-coronavirus-were-spotted-spread-and-throttled-in-china https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/how-early-signs-... Political and censorship considerations aside, one possible reason for doing this could've been to ensure that the tests were all centralized and "valid" while preventing accidental leakage of the virus from local testing companies. Yet this kind of policy precisely prevented the virus from being quickly identified. The CDC's focus on the validity of the tests and its refusal to let local hospitals test for the virus mirrors this mistake. Even if the CDC did not actively try to suppress information, it is acting too slow.
other_herbert 7y ago
There's also the potluck dinner with what sounds like all of the city... https://www.ibtimes.sg/focus-wuhan-potluck-dinner-cpc-fires-party-leader-hubei-amid-sharp-spike-deaths-39328 https://www.ibtimes.sg/focus-wuhan-potluck-dinner-cpc-fires-... (midway down the article) I think we may not have even heard about the virus if not for this Edit: relevant portion: Ill-advised potluck dinner helped spread the virus Another major perceived lapse of the Wuhan party authorities was their decision to let a large public feast go ahead in January despite the fact that there were clear signs that an epidemic was gathering pace. The local government had controversially allowed nearly 40,000 families to gather and share food as part of the Chinese New Year festival even as deaths from the virus were increasing. It later turned out that at least 10 cases of coronavirus infection were reported from among the participants of the feast on January 18, raising fears that the event must have accelerated the spread of the infection in Wuhan.
- borkt 7y ago
  Hmm, kind of like SXSW planning to go ahead.
  - supernovae 7y ago
    I chuckled.. and I live here...
bakuninsbart 7y ago
Honest question though: Which country would handle it better? A commenter below mentioned the US, but the reaction here in Germany has also been ridiculously slow and very lacking in both the political department as well as healthcare officials. An overwhelming majority of NHS medics doesn't think the UK is prepared either. [https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/02/coronavirus-just-eight-out-of-1600-doctors-in-poll-say-nhs-is-ready https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/02/coronavirus-...) Our lower population densities and much higher hygene standards make it less likely for a breakout to start here, but our dealing with a pandemic is at least as frighteningly incompetent as the chinese response.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  I think I read that South Korea is doing a great job, despite being hit hard
- davidw 7y ago
  We probably won't know until a year or so. Europe at least will treat everyone, so you won't have people avoiding doctors/hospitals because they can't pay.
  - rvnx 7y ago
    It's not really like this in Europe, not sure what made you think all medical care was free ? There are many cases where you are left on the side of the road in Europe too. It's certainly better than in the US, but far from free for everyone.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      I don't know of a single case of someone going bankrupt here due to medical bils. Feel free to supply examples to the contrary, I'm quite interested in that.
    - neilsense 7y ago
      It can vary country by country, as you'd imagine it would seeing as Europe is a large place, but it's so such a crazy notion to say that you'll most likely find some care in Europe if you're unwell and poor - definitely more so than in the US.
incompatible 7y ago
Iran, South Korea, Italy didn't manage to stop it at 100 people either, even with advance warning.
carterehsmith 7y ago
>> if the CCP had been better about seeing the truth they could have eliminated the virus when only 100 people had it Are there any "better" governments that eliminated e.g. cold or flu virus "when only 100 people had it"? I guess not. Cold and flu are common around the world. Hard to contain, and the containment would cause too much disruption and cost. So we learned to live with cold and flu.
Bendingo 7y ago
> they could have eliminated the virus when only 100 people had it This is simply speculation and not credible. > while the virus ran around getting the better of them In 6 months time, most (or all) western countries will look back and wish they had handled the virus as well as China.

the-pigeon 7y ago

It just reads like an anti-Chinese propaganda piece. Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of Chinese people are very disenfranchised by their government. But a lot of them love it too. But western media always focuses on those that dislike it. Which is not a balanced perspective of their people.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
muglug 7y ago
Given that putting your name to public criticism is a career-ending move in China, I think it's great that western media gives dissidents a voice.
unishark 7y ago
I don't know that any country's media gives a balanced perspective of another country. They just cover the stories that are interesting enough to repeat in their own country. "most people are doing just fine over here" is generally not such a story.
socialdemocrat 7y ago
It read like an authentic account from someone living there. Your response in contrast sounds like paid for propaganda in favor of the CCP. I read all sorts of descriptions of China. I would say in general the news is often too positive. Xi has increased dictatorial powers substantially. The internment of Ughuiyers is a massive human rights abuse they get little criticism for. Not to mention the relentless push to end any sliver of democracy and freedom in Hong Kong. Freedom in China is regressing under Xi and that is a serious cause for concern.
- dang 7y ago
  > Your response in contrast sounds like paid for propaganda in favor of the CCP. That breaks the site guidelines. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do this again. Also, please stop posting nationalistic flamebait to HN. We've already had to ask you this.

borkt 7y ago

Yeah, what is the point of a quarantine if they give you a warning and allow you to shop and leave the city? By very nature of his description it has worked as hoped.

socialdemocrat 7y ago
Problem is you risk killing more people with the quarantine than due to the virus if it is too draconian. You need some flexibility to let people get food.