8 ms·

The next step (that will probably never happen) would be to refurnish the Hagia Sophia, as it would have been before it was plundered in the fourth crusade, and

by beloch 7y ago

The next step (that will probably never happen) would be to refurnish the Hagia Sophia, as it would have been before it was plundered in the fourth crusade, and seat an audience in it, as if for a mass. Then pop another balloon. All those extra furnishings and bodies would have had a significant impact on how the space sounded. The plastered over mosaics might also create a noticeable effect that would need to be compensated for. Even with the impressive work of Abel and Pentcheva we still have something that would likely sound empty and strangely hollow to people familiar with the Hagia Sophia when it was serving as a church.

shrubble 7y ago
The last Orthodox church services were in 1453. So I doubt that there will be many critics who remember back that far :)
- peapicker 7y ago
  Some Greek chanters got permission to go into the Hagia Sophia and record a TV special (for Greek TV) of chant music several years ago. While not a service, it is the music that would have been used at a service. (Either that, or this is another case of convolution reverb and some clever video editing. I'm not sure. But it sounds pretty cool.) Part of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1aUZcHaJb4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1aUZcHaJb4 Another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eCZyvczZaM&t=98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eCZyvczZaM&t=98
- sb057 7y ago
  Actually, there was an (incredibly unauthorized) service held in 1919 during the Allied occupation of the city: https://greece.greekreporter.com/2019/09/26/the-brave-greek-priest-who-held-a-divine-liturgy-in-hagia-sophia-in-1919/ https://greece.greekreporter.com/2019/09/26/the-brave-greek-...
  - briandear 7y ago
    What an amazing story! Thanks for sharing that.
  - mbdesign 7y ago
    Great story.
  - beloch 7y ago
    That could have turned out so much worse for all involved, but I suspect those involved had different perceptions of the risks than we do now. Though there was still some risk of dying, this must have seemed like a cakewalk compared to jumping out of a WWI trench!
booboolayla 7y ago
Interesting how you managed to mention that the fourth crusade is somehow stopping us from doing this, instead of today's reality of the church being a mosque and Muslim clerics forbidding any Christian liturgies inside of it.
neverartful 7y ago
"All those extra furnishings" I don't know that there would be extra furnishings. It's not unheard of for Orthodox churches to only have seating around the perimeter for the sick and elderly. It's common for worshipers to stand during an Orthodox mass.
hnewsshadowbans 7y ago
I find it strange that people and historians are so fixated on the 4th Crusade as the be all end all of the Byzantine's and ignore or minimize as much as possible all that irrelevant side business of the centuries of fighting with the Muslims. You know, the guys that fought them far more often and more brutally and actually took away nearly all their territory and destroyed them? In addition to the above comment and a few others in this thread take this video for example. https://youtu.be/Okph9wt8I0A https://youtu.be/Okph9wt8I0A
- beloch 7y ago
  Don't forget the Persians before the Muslims or all the self-inflicted damage from coups, inept emperors, etc.. In this case though, the fourth crusade really is important since it was when the Hagia Sophia was first looted during a sack of the city. Nearly seven centuries of accumulated treasures were carted out of the place.
- tasogare 7y ago
  It's totally done on a politically oriented ground to denigrate a religion and culture, and put another in favouring light. If people were more educated about some historical facts (for instance the bloody conquest of India) it would be harder for some people to keep the power and push their agenda.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
gmueckl 7y ago
You don't have to measure it, strictly speaking. When you know the acoustic material properties of the surfaces well enough, you can compute an impulse response with high enough accuracy (getting to one jnd and below). The tricky part is knowing the material properties. These are often just guesses as measuring them in situ is very difficult/impossible.
tdumitrescu 7y ago
I don't know about it feeling empty and strangely hollow. I've sung in plenty of very large cathedral spaces, and even when they're packed with people they're still immensely resonant, sometimes to the detriment of the music - singers often prefer smaller spaces where the sound doesn't get lost in an acoustic bathtub. And as another commenter pointed out, there never would have been rows of pews in the Hagia Sophia like in a western church.

by beloch 7y ago

shrubble 7y ago

The last Orthodox church services were in 1453. So I doubt that there will be many critics who remember back that far :)

peapicker 7y ago
Some Greek chanters got permission to go into the Hagia Sophia and record a TV special (for Greek TV) of chant music several years ago. While not a service, it is the music that would have been used at a service. (Either that, or this is another case of convolution reverb and some clever video editing. I'm not sure. But it sounds pretty cool.) Part of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1aUZcHaJb4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1aUZcHaJb4 Another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eCZyvczZaM&t=98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eCZyvczZaM&t=98
sb057 7y ago
Actually, there was an (incredibly unauthorized) service held in 1919 during the Allied occupation of the city: https://greece.greekreporter.com/2019/09/26/the-brave-greek-priest-who-held-a-divine-liturgy-in-hagia-sophia-in-1919/ https://greece.greekreporter.com/2019/09/26/the-brave-greek-...
- briandear 7y ago
  What an amazing story! Thanks for sharing that.
- mbdesign 7y ago
  Great story.
- beloch 7y ago
  That could have turned out so much worse for all involved, but I suspect those involved had different perceptions of the risks than we do now. Though there was still some risk of dying, this must have seemed like a cakewalk compared to jumping out of a WWI trench!

booboolayla 7y ago

Interesting how you managed to mention that the fourth crusade is somehow stopping us from doing this, instead of today's reality of the church being a mosque and Muslim clerics forbidding any Christian liturgies inside of it.

neverartful 7y ago

"All those extra furnishings" I don't know that there would be extra furnishings. It's not unheard of for Orthodox churches to only have seating around the perimeter for the sick and elderly. It's common for worshipers to stand during an Orthodox mass.

hnewsshadowbans 7y ago

I find it strange that people and historians are so fixated on the 4th Crusade as the be all end all of the Byzantine's and ignore or minimize as much as possible all that irrelevant side business of the centuries of fighting with the Muslims. You know, the guys that fought them far more often and more brutally and actually took away nearly all their territory and destroyed them? In addition to the above comment and a few others in this thread take this video for example. https://youtu.be/Okph9wt8I0A https://youtu.be/Okph9wt8I0A

beloch 7y ago
Don't forget the Persians before the Muslims or all the self-inflicted damage from coups, inept emperors, etc.. In this case though, the fourth crusade really is important since it was when the Hagia Sophia was first looted during a sack of the city. Nearly seven centuries of accumulated treasures were carted out of the place.
tasogare 7y ago
It's totally done on a politically oriented ground to denigrate a religion and culture, and put another in favouring light. If people were more educated about some historical facts (for instance the bloody conquest of India) it would be harder for some people to keep the power and push their agenda.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

gmueckl 7y ago

You don't have to measure it, strictly speaking. When you know the acoustic material properties of the surfaces well enough, you can compute an impulse response with high enough accuracy (getting to one jnd and below). The tricky part is knowing the material properties. These are often just guesses as measuring them in situ is very difficult/impossible.

tdumitrescu 7y ago

I don't know about it feeling empty and strangely hollow. I've sung in plenty of very large cathedral spaces, and even when they're packed with people they're still immensely resonant, sometimes to the detriment of the music - singers often prefer smaller spaces where the sound doesn't get lost in an acoustic bathtub. And as another commenter pointed out, there never would have been rows of pews in the Hagia Sophia like in a western church.