12 ms·

Finally, this is going to be more accessible to more users to Mozilla since now they are using Matrix. Well done to the Matrix team, The future is here!

josteink 7y ago
I dunno. As someone who gets IRC and consider it proper mature, and thinks Matrix sounds like a mess I’d rather not have to look into, it probably means Mozilla will be less accessible to me. Unless they keep a IRC-bridge around and then I will be happy, because then Mozilla is still on IRC and whatever overly complex Matrix-based IRC-backend they have, that’s not really my problem.
- viraptor 7y ago
  There's a lot of bias here. You consider something you use mature. On the other hand what you don't use only "sounds like a mess". You may want to give it a try before criticising it as probably less accessible.
  - karatestomp 7y ago
    You can semi-productively talk to IRC over Telnet and it's been around basically forever in Internet time. Anything's going to be an immature mess by comparison—whether the mess is justified by improved functionality, and whether the new kid'll be around long enough to care about (say, is it likely to still be alive and kickin' in 20 years), are the important questions.
    - Arathorn 7y ago
      You can semi-productively talk to Matrix over a few lines of bash & curl fwiw, as per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20949477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20949477
  - josteink 7y ago
    > There's a lot of bias here. Sure. I've been on IRC since the 90s. It's a tool I know and love. > You may want to give it a try before criticising it as probably less accessible. OK. What good terminal clients exists which I can run in a screen session on my home server? Are there any which acts more or less like irssi or weechat, which I've developed deep habbits for the last 20+ years? And are any of these packaged by Debian or Ubuntu? If it's mature tech, like you say, there should be lots of clients and finding one which fits my niche should be simple, right?
    - Arathorn 7y ago
      as per elsewhere, just use weechat-matrix, which is excellent.
    - dralley 7y ago
      There is, in fact, a tool for Matrix which acts like weechat. It's called weechat. https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix
      - detaro 7y ago
        Was it really necessary to add a second comment to the parent, repeating what the first one said but more dismissive?
    - ken 7y ago
      Can you name any other mature tech which meets those standards? Do you not consider the web mature?
  - zmix 7y ago
    > You consider something you use mature. From Wikipedia: IRC was created by Jarkko Oikarinen in August 1988 A major, hugely successful product, that is in the market for 32 years, and has seen many implementations, both on client as well as on server side, must be "mature". No?!
    - viraptor 7y ago
      I didn't say it's not. I just commented on the way the tech was compared. OP said that "as someone who gets it", they "consider" it mature.
      - ghostpepper 7y ago
        If you're not saying it's not mature, why criticize the OP for saying it's mature? Hardly seems relevant to your point.
        viraptor 7y ago
        I criticised the "something I know/get is good, something I haven't used seems inaccessible" comparison only.
    - Shish2k 7y ago
      > A major, hugely successful product, that is in the market for 32 years, and has seen many implementations, both on client as well as on server side, must be "mature". No?! No. HTTP/HTML are mature; IRC is just old :P The IRC ecosystem is as if we’d reached HTTP/0.9 + HTML/1.0, and everybody collectively agreed to just stay there forever for some reason. “Mature” to me implies that a product has spent many years iterating on a design to reach, at the very least, a local maxima - ideally getting past that and evolving to keep up with the rest of the industry. IRC on the other hand, seems to have had a couple of years of work at the start, and then remained set in stone for 30 years...
    - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
      At this point IRC is so mature its senile
bsagdiyev 7y ago
I disagree, IRC is as simple as it gets. This might discourage some people from joining.
- dTal 7y ago
  I love IRC but it is clearly not "as simple as it gets". Every non-technical person I've tried to introduce it to glazes over by the second or third /command, if they even get past "you need to pick an IRC network". Meanwhile they're all happily chatting away on WhatsApp.
  - bluedino 7y ago
    Some people consider vi a simple editor...
    - farisjarrah 7y ago
      Does simple have to equal easy? An abacus is very simple, but its not easy to do advanced mathematics on it without prior training.
      - kstrauser 7y ago
        > Does simple have to equal easy? laughs in Simple Mail Transfer Protocol
        raverbashing 7y ago
        laughs even harder in lightweight directory access protocol
        falcolas 7y ago
        screams and runs away
        bashinator 7y ago
ken 7y ago
Is this for Mozilla users or Mozilla developers? From what little I've tried, Mozilla has way bigger issues with making their projects accessible to new developers than which chat system they use.

josteink 7y ago

I dunno. As someone who gets IRC and consider it proper mature, and thinks Matrix sounds like a mess I’d rather not have to look into, it probably means Mozilla will be less accessible to me. Unless they keep a IRC-bridge around and then I will be happy, because then Mozilla is still on IRC and whatever overly complex Matrix-based IRC-backend they have, that’s not really my problem.

viraptor 7y ago
There's a lot of bias here. You consider something you use mature. On the other hand what you don't use only "sounds like a mess". You may want to give it a try before criticising it as probably less accessible.
- karatestomp 7y ago
  You can semi-productively talk to IRC over Telnet and it's been around basically forever in Internet time. Anything's going to be an immature mess by comparison—whether the mess is justified by improved functionality, and whether the new kid'll be around long enough to care about (say, is it likely to still be alive and kickin' in 20 years), are the important questions.
  - Arathorn 7y ago
    You can semi-productively talk to Matrix over a few lines of bash & curl fwiw, as per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20949477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20949477
- josteink 7y ago
  > There's a lot of bias here. Sure. I've been on IRC since the 90s. It's a tool I know and love. > You may want to give it a try before criticising it as probably less accessible. OK. What good terminal clients exists which I can run in a screen session on my home server? Are there any which acts more or less like irssi or weechat, which I've developed deep habbits for the last 20+ years? And are any of these packaged by Debian or Ubuntu? If it's mature tech, like you say, there should be lots of clients and finding one which fits my niche should be simple, right?
  - Arathorn 7y ago
    as per elsewhere, just use weechat-matrix, which is excellent.
  - dralley 7y ago
    There is, in fact, a tool for Matrix which acts like weechat. It's called weechat. https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat-matrix
    - detaro 7y ago
      Was it really necessary to add a second comment to the parent, repeating what the first one said but more dismissive?
  - ken 7y ago
    Can you name any other mature tech which meets those standards? Do you not consider the web mature?
- zmix 7y ago
  > You consider something you use mature. From Wikipedia: IRC was created by Jarkko Oikarinen in August 1988 A major, hugely successful product, that is in the market for 32 years, and has seen many implementations, both on client as well as on server side, must be "mature". No?!
  - viraptor 7y ago
    I didn't say it's not. I just commented on the way the tech was compared. OP said that "as someone who gets it", they "consider" it mature.
    - ghostpepper 7y ago
      If you're not saying it's not mature, why criticize the OP for saying it's mature? Hardly seems relevant to your point.
      - viraptor 7y ago
        I criticised the "something I know/get is good, something I haven't used seems inaccessible" comparison only.
  - Shish2k 7y ago
    > A major, hugely successful product, that is in the market for 32 years, and has seen many implementations, both on client as well as on server side, must be "mature". No?! No. HTTP/HTML are mature; IRC is just old :P The IRC ecosystem is as if we’d reached HTTP/0.9 + HTML/1.0, and everybody collectively agreed to just stay there forever for some reason. “Mature” to me implies that a product has spent many years iterating on a design to reach, at the very least, a local maxima - ideally getting past that and evolving to keep up with the rest of the industry. IRC on the other hand, seems to have had a couple of years of work at the start, and then remained set in stone for 30 years...
  - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
    At this point IRC is so mature its senile

bsagdiyev 7y ago

I disagree, IRC is as simple as it gets. This might discourage some people from joining.

dTal 7y ago
I love IRC but it is clearly not "as simple as it gets". Every non-technical person I've tried to introduce it to glazes over by the second or third /command, if they even get past "you need to pick an IRC network". Meanwhile they're all happily chatting away on WhatsApp.
- bluedino 7y ago
  Some people consider vi a simple editor...
  - farisjarrah 7y ago
    Does simple have to equal easy? An abacus is very simple, but its not easy to do advanced mathematics on it without prior training.
    - kstrauser 7y ago
      > Does simple have to equal easy? laughs in Simple Mail Transfer Protocol
      - raverbashing 7y ago
        laughs even harder in lightweight directory access protocol
        falcolas 7y ago
        screams and runs away
        bashinator 7y ago

ken 7y ago

Is this for Mozilla users or Mozilla developers? From what little I've tried, Mozilla has way bigger issues with making their projects accessible to new developers than which chat system they use.