4 ms·

Yes, but I mean, what if you replace the sticker with the barcode and the serial number? You have #C097412. You remove it, and put on #D108523. You then replac

Yes, but I mean, what if you replace the sticker with the barcode and the serial number? You have #C097412. You remove it, and put on #D108523. You then replace the barcode and serial number underneath with #D108523.

sokoloff 7y ago
I, as the shipper, tell you (the receiver) out-of-band that you're getting a tilt indicator with serial #C097412. You check the received label against my out-of-band signal to ensure it matches.
- heartbeats 7y ago
  And you did, but it's a forgery. It doesn't look like it has the fancy holo stickers or anything.
  - MrMorden 7y ago
    That might not exactly take a Tony Mendez-grade forger, but making a good one is probably not going to be within the skill set of random warehouse workers who enjoy agitating expensive shipments. They have to find a decent forger, get in contact, and arrange for the service. That wasn't going to be cheap to begin with, but the package is constantly in motion, so now someone else has to emplace the forged detector in a different location. Assuming the warehouse worker can afford all that, someone offering anti-tamper-bypass-as-a-service is going to run headfirst into the FBI, SCA, and other well-resourced government organizations with which a sane individual would never consider fucking. That does not lead to rising property values in Tokyo.
    - mattkrause 7y ago
      And what’s the point of all this effort? Tilting packages doesn’t seem particularly fun or lucrative. It’s not even a particularly effective form of sabotage: maybe you’ll increase the damaged-in-shipment claims by a bit, but maybe not. If you’re already forging and breaking into wear houses, surely you could find something more enjoyable, profitable, or vicious to do than provide post-hoc cover to a rough shipper.
      - michaelt 7y ago
        Usually? You are a delivery worker. You will get fired if you aren't fast enough. You will also be fired if you trigger a tilt indicator. You're on your final warning, and replacement tilt stickers cost $3 on ebay. A delivery worker won't be hacking e-mails - but if they know hardly anyone checks the tilt sensor serial numbers anyway...
        mattkrause 7y ago
        The solution is obviously to find a forger, put them on retainer, and swap out the indicators as needed so that you can keep a $15/hr warehouse job. I have no idea how much such a service would cost (perhaps your life is much more exciting than mine), but I'd imagine skilled forgers don't come cheap, as they could easily find something more profitable to do than faking tilt indicators.
mattkrause 7y ago
The vendor puts the tilt detectors onto the crate before the shipper collects it. The tag numbers are noted on the invoice/shipping notice/etc which says something like “Please verify tilt indicator C097412 before accepting the package. If the indicator is missing or reads 40+ degrees, DO NOT SIGN FOR THE PACKAGE; CALL US ASAP INSTEAD.” This is sent by email or (alas) fax directly from the vendor to the recipient. At some point in transit, the package tips over (oops). You sneak in and swap the indicator for #D108523 while it’s awaiting a connection. When it arrives, the recipient checks the crate against the invoice. She notices that the indicator numbers don’t match: the email says C097412, but the crate has D108532 on it. She won’t sign for it. She calls the vendor and says “There may be a problem with the very fragile, VERY EXPENSIVE microscope I ordered from you. Send me another one that’s demonstrably intact or get a service team out here NOW to check this one over. Legal says you’re not getting paid otherwise.” Several other people are about to have bad days. The vendor checks their own logs and finds that the crate did indeed go out with C097412 on it. They proceed to ream out the shipping company. A lot of things might happen next, but after most of them, you get fired. You might have gotten away with it if you could change that email, but how would you at the shipping company, have access to either parties’ email or records? And if you did have such access—-and wanted to use it for evil—-surely you could think of something more lucrative than fractionally increasing the number of possibly-damaged items received?

sokoloff 7y ago

I, as the shipper, tell you (the receiver) out-of-band that you're getting a tilt indicator with serial #C097412. You check the received label against my out-of-band signal to ensure it matches.

heartbeats 7y ago
And you did, but it's a forgery. It doesn't look like it has the fancy holo stickers or anything.
- MrMorden 7y ago
  That might not exactly take a Tony Mendez-grade forger, but making a good one is probably not going to be within the skill set of random warehouse workers who enjoy agitating expensive shipments. They have to find a decent forger, get in contact, and arrange for the service. That wasn't going to be cheap to begin with, but the package is constantly in motion, so now someone else has to emplace the forged detector in a different location. Assuming the warehouse worker can afford all that, someone offering anti-tamper-bypass-as-a-service is going to run headfirst into the FBI, SCA, and other well-resourced government organizations with which a sane individual would never consider fucking. That does not lead to rising property values in Tokyo.
  - mattkrause 7y ago
    And what’s the point of all this effort? Tilting packages doesn’t seem particularly fun or lucrative. It’s not even a particularly effective form of sabotage: maybe you’ll increase the damaged-in-shipment claims by a bit, but maybe not. If you’re already forging and breaking into wear houses, surely you could find something more enjoyable, profitable, or vicious to do than provide post-hoc cover to a rough shipper.
    - michaelt 7y ago
      Usually? You are a delivery worker. You will get fired if you aren't fast enough. You will also be fired if you trigger a tilt indicator. You're on your final warning, and replacement tilt stickers cost $3 on ebay. A delivery worker won't be hacking e-mails - but if they know hardly anyone checks the tilt sensor serial numbers anyway...
      - mattkrause 7y ago
        The solution is obviously to find a forger, put them on retainer, and swap out the indicators as needed so that you can keep a $15/hr warehouse job. I have no idea how much such a service would cost (perhaps your life is much more exciting than mine), but I'd imagine skilled forgers don't come cheap, as they could easily find something more profitable to do than faking tilt indicators.

mattkrause 7y ago

The vendor puts the tilt detectors onto the crate before the shipper collects it. The tag numbers are noted on the invoice/shipping notice/etc which says something like “Please verify tilt indicator C097412 before accepting the package. If the indicator is missing or reads 40+ degrees, DO NOT SIGN FOR THE PACKAGE; CALL US ASAP INSTEAD.” This is sent by email or (alas) fax directly from the vendor to the recipient. At some point in transit, the package tips over (oops). You sneak in and swap the indicator for #D108523 while it’s awaiting a connection. When it arrives, the recipient checks the crate against the invoice. She notices that the indicator numbers don’t match: the email says C097412, but the crate has D108532 on it. She won’t sign for it. She calls the vendor and says “There may be a problem with the very fragile, VERY EXPENSIVE microscope I ordered from you. Send me another one that’s demonstrably intact or get a service team out here NOW to check this one over. Legal says you’re not getting paid otherwise.” Several other people are about to have bad days. The vendor checks their own logs and finds that the crate did indeed go out with C097412 on it. They proceed to ream out the shipping company. A lot of things might happen next, but after most of them, you get fired. You might have gotten away with it if you could change that email, but how would you at the shipping company, have access to either parties’ email or records? And if you did have such access—-and wanted to use it for evil—-surely you could think of something more lucrative than fractionally increasing the number of possibly-damaged items received?