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It seems like this problem has only been allowed to get so bad because it's a silent failure. We throw things in the recycling, and without any feedback we assu

It seems like this problem has only been allowed to get so bad because it's a silent failure. We throw things in the recycling, and without any feedback we assume they are recycled. The failure should be pushed up the chain, at least to the consumer. The rules on what can be recycled should be realistic and consistently enforced, then people can make more informed choices (up to and including pushing for regulation on manufacturers).

lm28469 7y ago
That's the whole point of recycling, feeling good about ourselves. In reality the vast majority of the shit we throw away end up in open sky dump in Africa or China, but hey, I paid 80ct of "eco tax" on my $1k fridge so it's not my problem anymore. Just like using a paper straw at starbucks is doing absolutely nothing at all if you don't change the rest of your lifestyle. https://www.africanexponent.com/post/8588-the-west-is-dumping-electronic-waste-in-africa https://www.africanexponent.com/post/8588-the-west-is-dumpin... https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/oct/06/smelly-contaminated-disease-worlds-open-dumps https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/oct/06/s... https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/apr/24/rotten-chicken-eggs-e-waste-from-europe-poisons-ghana-food-chain-agbogbloshie-accra https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/apr/24/r...
- mistrial9 7y ago
  the first city-wide recycling projects in the USA were faced with this kind of brick-wall reasoning in the 1970s, and yet have built successfully over and over.. the sideways reference to "eco-tax" shows there is an ideological driver here
  - lm28469 7y ago
    > the sideways reference to "eco-tax" shows there is an ideological driver here Yes clearly, thinking a few cents of eco tax will outweigh your ecological impact is like thinking using paper straws makes up for taking the plane once a week. It's nice "feel good" idea but it doesn't have any real world impact. Just look at every pollution related threads on HN, there are always a lot of people blaming China and Asia for having the most polluting rivers, while the majority of the shit ending in their rivers was consumed in the EU/US. Recycling really isn't much more than "I'll put it far away and from now on act like it doesn't exist anymore". Everything I read about recycling in the US, or anywhere else for that matter, is that it doesn't work very well and most of it is exported, so I'm not quite sure about which recycling projects you're talking about. https://www.plasticpollutioncoalition.org/blog/2019/3/6/157000-shipping-containers-of-us-plastic-waste-exported-to-countries-with-poor-waste-management-in-2018 https://www.plasticpollutioncoalition.org/blog/2019/3/6/1570... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-plastic-america-global-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-pla... https://www.boell.de/en/2019/11/04/waste-exports-rubbish-dump-closed https://www.boell.de/en/2019/11/04/waste-exports-rubbish-dum... https://www.statista.com/chart/18229/biggest-exporters-of-plastic-waste-and-scrap/ https://www.statista.com/chart/18229/biggest-exporters-of-pl...
    - mistrial9 7y ago
      plastics is not solved, so we agree on that.. paper and aluminum can easily pay for itself when done well.. lots of dense consumer products are somewhere in the middle.. product design and materials make the difference in many cases " so I'm not quite sure about which recycling projects you're talking about" .. there are ample business case studies of materials recycling that work, in certain markets, but they do not tend to be at the top of the web-based news It is unduly onerous to claim "recycling doesn't work" IMO
aSplash0fDerp 7y ago
Not to come across as crass, but the popularity of inferior products and packaging (in light of the accumulated data) seem to be rooted in a bygone era that had little, if any quality standards (think pre-pink slime nugget accounting and profit scenarios). It is a bit of a stretch in legal terms, but with the negligence in place for disposal processes/costs of a resource as mature as plastic, it is exactly like the fight against CFC's and the hole in the ozone layer. Quantifiable damage from plastics and a strategy for reduction could/should mirror other successful campaigns to limit ecological damage. Most of these brands are now invisible for the 1st world, cord-cutting, ad-blocker-loving generations, so my hope is that the next round of behemoths will learn from their environmental mistakes.

lm28469 7y ago

That's the whole point of recycling, feeling good about ourselves. In reality the vast majority of the shit we throw away end up in open sky dump in Africa or China, but hey, I paid 80ct of "eco tax" on my $1k fridge so it's not my problem anymore. Just like using a paper straw at starbucks is doing absolutely nothing at all if you don't change the rest of your lifestyle. https://www.africanexponent.com/post/8588-the-west-is-dumping-electronic-waste-in-africa https://www.africanexponent.com/post/8588-the-west-is-dumpin... https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/oct/06/smelly-contaminated-disease-worlds-open-dumps https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/oct/06/s... https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/apr/24/rotten-chicken-eggs-e-waste-from-europe-poisons-ghana-food-chain-agbogbloshie-accra https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/apr/24/r...

mistrial9 7y ago
the first city-wide recycling projects in the USA were faced with this kind of brick-wall reasoning in the 1970s, and yet have built successfully over and over.. the sideways reference to "eco-tax" shows there is an ideological driver here
- lm28469 7y ago
  > the sideways reference to "eco-tax" shows there is an ideological driver here Yes clearly, thinking a few cents of eco tax will outweigh your ecological impact is like thinking using paper straws makes up for taking the plane once a week. It's nice "feel good" idea but it doesn't have any real world impact. Just look at every pollution related threads on HN, there are always a lot of people blaming China and Asia for having the most polluting rivers, while the majority of the shit ending in their rivers was consumed in the EU/US. Recycling really isn't much more than "I'll put it far away and from now on act like it doesn't exist anymore". Everything I read about recycling in the US, or anywhere else for that matter, is that it doesn't work very well and most of it is exported, so I'm not quite sure about which recycling projects you're talking about. https://www.plasticpollutioncoalition.org/blog/2019/3/6/157000-shipping-containers-of-us-plastic-waste-exported-to-countries-with-poor-waste-management-in-2018 https://www.plasticpollutioncoalition.org/blog/2019/3/6/1570... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-plastic-america-global-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-pla... https://www.boell.de/en/2019/11/04/waste-exports-rubbish-dump-closed https://www.boell.de/en/2019/11/04/waste-exports-rubbish-dum... https://www.statista.com/chart/18229/biggest-exporters-of-plastic-waste-and-scrap/ https://www.statista.com/chart/18229/biggest-exporters-of-pl...
  - mistrial9 7y ago
    plastics is not solved, so we agree on that.. paper and aluminum can easily pay for itself when done well.. lots of dense consumer products are somewhere in the middle.. product design and materials make the difference in many cases " so I'm not quite sure about which recycling projects you're talking about" .. there are ample business case studies of materials recycling that work, in certain markets, but they do not tend to be at the top of the web-based news It is unduly onerous to claim "recycling doesn't work" IMO

aSplash0fDerp 7y ago

Not to come across as crass, but the popularity of inferior products and packaging (in light of the accumulated data) seem to be rooted in a bygone era that had little, if any quality standards (think pre-pink slime nugget accounting and profit scenarios). It is a bit of a stretch in legal terms, but with the negligence in place for disposal processes/costs of a resource as mature as plastic, it is exactly like the fight against CFC's and the hole in the ozone layer. Quantifiable damage from plastics and a strategy for reduction could/should mirror other successful campaigns to limit ecological damage. Most of these brands are now invisible for the 1st world, cord-cutting, ad-blocker-loving generations, so my hope is that the next round of behemoths will learn from their environmental mistakes.