5 ms·

Well, at some point in American business culture it does seem like a number of people did lose sight and become convinced that the only way to deliver sharehold

Well, at some point in American business culture it does seem like a number of people did lose sight and become convinced that the only way to deliver shareholder value is to lay off continuously.

neves 7y ago
It looks like this became the basis of American economy. And you can't loose your job, because you'll miss your mortgage or education payments and loose your health care. So you must do anything your employer tell you to do.
- dnautics 7y ago
  I would say it's become the basis of worldwide modern central banking capitalism, gas and water socialist countries included.
  - random_savv 7y ago
    Can't tell if this is meant as sarcasm or truthfully :-)
- WalterBright 7y ago
  > because you'll miss your mortgage or education payments and loose your health care. This is why the sensible thing to do is to save up a cushion of 6 months. You can continue with your employer health care with COBRA for 6 months or a year.
  - michaelgrafl 7y ago
    You‘re saying this as if it were realistic for the majority of people to save up a cushion of 6 months in a reasonable time frame (or ever).
    - kelnos 7y ago
      It's not easy, but I think a lot of the people who don't save, actually could. Part of the problem is people don't think they can save "enough to matter", so they never start. Even starting with just tossing $5 or $10 a month into savings account can help. It kickstarts the habit, at least, and often people can later justify raising that amount or putting in a little more here and there. For some other people, if they'd drop the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality even just a little bit, they could develop significant savings. Yes, there are many people in the US who are just barely getting by, and can't meaningfully save without making cuts to essential spending, but that certainly doesn't describe everyone who currently lives paycheck-to-paycheck.
    - WalterBright 7y ago
      A majority of people are significantly above the poverty line. If they're living hand-to-mouth, they are mismanaging their finances. For example, I know a fellow who told me he could not handle the slightest disruption in his paycheck. He was driving a new car, living in new house, wore expensive clothes, and was starting a family. A friend of mine living in an apartment told me he was unable to pay his bills. I asked him what the payment was on his new car. I suggested he sell the car, and buy a car he could pay cash for. He surprised me by following my advice and was able to reduce his stress about his finances. My father, an officer in the AF, was once tasked with counseling the privates on their finances, as many were unable to pay their bills on the local economy. (The AF really tries to be a good citizen in the community where the base is located.) The privates were paid every two weeks. Half of them drank their paycheck away and ate steak for the first week, and begged/borrowed/stiffed others for money the second. They received the same paychecks, but half could not manage their finances. My father would counsel them, work up budgets for them, all for naught.
      - WalterBright 7y ago
        A lot of people overspend their income because they're eating out. Restaurants are an extremely expensive way to get fed. Even a quarter pounder at McD's is $6, but I can get a half pound of good steak from the supermarket for $2. My drip coffee costs me $.03 per cup, compared to $4 at Starbucks. You can fry yourself 3 eggs for $.50.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    Why would you need COBRA? You can go to healthcare.gov and buy health insurance that is probably as good or better than what most employers offer. And you wouldn’t have to pay for months you didn’t need healthcare.
    - amyjess 7y ago
      Exchange health insurance is still pretty unaffordable if you're unemployed or underemployed, and it's much less likely than employer health insurance to cover medical conditions that aren't required by law to be covered (e.g. gender dysphoria). Our system is messed up.
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        I purchase health insurance for my businesses, and it all seems the same to me, cost and coverage wise. I guess it might be a little cheaper if the company has a very young workforce.
        amyjess 7y ago
        Large companies all custom-package their own insurance instead of just buying off-the-shelf plans.
  - hugi 7y ago
    I feel desperately sorry for Americans when it comes to health care.
    - rchaud 7y ago
      Which Americans though? There are numerous Americans and American institutions whose work specifically involves pushing the interests of insurers, pharma and hospitals on Capitol Hill, against those of average people who work minimum wage jobs and can't afford basic coverage.
      - AtlasBarfed 7y ago
        Won't someone think of the executives, doctors, lawyers, and lobbyists? They have feelings too.
markus_zhang 7y ago
Actually cutting cost usually comes first to the mind of the investment bankers because: 1. Cutting cost will always yield a quick gain 2. It's a lot more difficult to turn it around and win in the long term 3. Even if the banker wants a long term picture, cutting cost is not necessarily a bad idea.

Well, at some point in American business culture it does seem like a number of people did lose sight and become convinced that the only way to deliver shareholder value is to lay off continuously.

neves 7y ago

It looks like this became the basis of American economy. And you can't loose your job, because you'll miss your mortgage or education payments and loose your health care. So you must do anything your employer tell you to do.

dnautics 7y ago
I would say it's become the basis of worldwide modern central banking capitalism, gas and water socialist countries included.
- random_savv 7y ago
  Can't tell if this is meant as sarcasm or truthfully :-)
WalterBright 7y ago
> because you'll miss your mortgage or education payments and loose your health care. This is why the sensible thing to do is to save up a cushion of 6 months. You can continue with your employer health care with COBRA for 6 months or a year.
- michaelgrafl 7y ago
  You‘re saying this as if it were realistic for the majority of people to save up a cushion of 6 months in a reasonable time frame (or ever).
  - kelnos 7y ago
    It's not easy, but I think a lot of the people who don't save, actually could. Part of the problem is people don't think they can save "enough to matter", so they never start. Even starting with just tossing $5 or $10 a month into savings account can help. It kickstarts the habit, at least, and often people can later justify raising that amount or putting in a little more here and there. For some other people, if they'd drop the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality even just a little bit, they could develop significant savings. Yes, there are many people in the US who are just barely getting by, and can't meaningfully save without making cuts to essential spending, but that certainly doesn't describe everyone who currently lives paycheck-to-paycheck.
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    A majority of people are significantly above the poverty line. If they're living hand-to-mouth, they are mismanaging their finances. For example, I know a fellow who told me he could not handle the slightest disruption in his paycheck. He was driving a new car, living in new house, wore expensive clothes, and was starting a family. A friend of mine living in an apartment told me he was unable to pay his bills. I asked him what the payment was on his new car. I suggested he sell the car, and buy a car he could pay cash for. He surprised me by following my advice and was able to reduce his stress about his finances. My father, an officer in the AF, was once tasked with counseling the privates on their finances, as many were unable to pay their bills on the local economy. (The AF really tries to be a good citizen in the community where the base is located.) The privates were paid every two weeks. Half of them drank their paycheck away and ate steak for the first week, and begged/borrowed/stiffed others for money the second. They received the same paychecks, but half could not manage their finances. My father would counsel them, work up budgets for them, all for naught.
    - WalterBright 7y ago
      A lot of people overspend their income because they're eating out. Restaurants are an extremely expensive way to get fed. Even a quarter pounder at McD's is $6, but I can get a half pound of good steak from the supermarket for $2. My drip coffee costs me $.03 per cup, compared to $4 at Starbucks. You can fry yourself 3 eggs for $.50.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Why would you need COBRA? You can go to healthcare.gov and buy health insurance that is probably as good or better than what most employers offer. And you wouldn’t have to pay for months you didn’t need healthcare.
  - amyjess 7y ago
    Exchange health insurance is still pretty unaffordable if you're unemployed or underemployed, and it's much less likely than employer health insurance to cover medical conditions that aren't required by law to be covered (e.g. gender dysphoria). Our system is messed up.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      I purchase health insurance for my businesses, and it all seems the same to me, cost and coverage wise. I guess it might be a little cheaper if the company has a very young workforce.
      - amyjess 7y ago
        Large companies all custom-package their own insurance instead of just buying off-the-shelf plans.
- hugi 7y ago
  I feel desperately sorry for Americans when it comes to health care.
  - rchaud 7y ago
    Which Americans though? There are numerous Americans and American institutions whose work specifically involves pushing the interests of insurers, pharma and hospitals on Capitol Hill, against those of average people who work minimum wage jobs and can't afford basic coverage.
    - AtlasBarfed 7y ago
      Won't someone think of the executives, doctors, lawyers, and lobbyists? They have feelings too.

markus_zhang 7y ago

Actually cutting cost usually comes first to the mind of the investment bankers because: 1. Cutting cost will always yield a quick gain 2. It's a lot more difficult to turn it around and win in the long term 3. Even if the banker wants a long term picture, cutting cost is not necessarily a bad idea.