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I have a hard time believing that any immortal character in any fictional universe would be so cavalier with their life as an elf is. Imagine a world where the

I have a hard time believing that any immortal character in any fictional universe would be so cavalier with their life as an elf is. Imagine a world where the only way you could die is in some sort of accident or due to violence. The downside from even stepping outside, where you risk getting killed by a falling tree or any such random event, would be effectively infinite. I don't think this aspect is generally well-explored in fantasy.

ashtonbaker 7y ago
In LOTR, the souls of dead elves go to the Halls of Mandos to await reincarnation, so there is an explanation. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Halls_of_Mandos https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Halls_of_Mandos
Swizec 7y ago
> The downside from even stepping outside, where you risk getting killed by a falling tree or any such random event, would be effectively infinite. And yet here we are, doing it every day even though our 80 year natural lifespan looks like immortality to all but a few other animal species.
peter303 7y ago
I suspect you could get used to immortality and not think about accidental deaths. That is pretty much the case with human teenagers.
einpoklum 7y ago
Well, most elves are not of the kind that's cavalier about their lives: They went to Valinor and stayed there. Or stayed put in Doriath for millennia and then went to Valinor. Or to Greenwood, stayed there for a few millennia, and then went to Valinor. You catch my drift...
logfromblammo 7y ago
The sociological response to the ossification of civilization, brought on by excessive longevity, is murder of the immortals. We currently have several septuagenarians duking it out to be our next elected executive leader. Imagine the political discord that would exist between generations if all the leaders were over seven hundred years old. We'd be warring constantly over the inequality. If one stays inside, eventually the 20th-generation scion of a human family that they have been collecting rents from all that time comes in to kill them, and free his children from the yoke of their undying ownership. Inspired, of course, by an alliance with their grandchild, who wants to inherit something of their own before they turn 500. It's not that they are cavalier with their lives, as fighting to wrest resources away from their elders, when Death refuses to help. The young have no place to call their own in which to stay. The old cannot fortify against every threat, and must project the impression that they take enough risks to die from their own activities, otherwise be murdered for calcifying local developments. Alternately, an immortal society could have a festival every century in which all property passes to one's living heirs, and the eldest living ancestor, who would otherwise receive no inheritance, is paid some cash by all their living descendants. I recall a story in which people above a certain age were banned from all governing roles, and could only fill advisory positions. Futurama had the retirement planet, where the eldest (a.k.a. Prof. Farnsworth) were imprisoned to keep them out of the way. Even the various cultural mythologies had new gods arising to slay and replace the old gods. It's very well explored--immortals get murdered. Even the Monkey King, who was six-ways immortal, faced execution, and when the gods discovered they couldn't kill him by any of the known methods of killing immortals, they instead put a mountain on top of him to keep him from moving.
ASalazarMX 7y ago
Counterpoint: humans are long-lived compared to other creatures, yet we don't dress in bubble wrap. A human life is normal length to us, and we would risk it if needed. Young soldiers risk death at a fourth of their potential lifespan.
snowwrestler 7y ago
I once saw a great comic strip that asked what if people truly valued their lives according to how many years they had left? The comic depicted young people cowering inside because they had so much to lose, and all the old people were out doing adventure sports and crime since they had so little left to lose. One old man gets sentenced to life in prison and he barks “Ha! What a bargain!”
atomicnumber3 7y ago
One thing that makes elves in Tolkien's works less OP is the fact that they are slaves to fate, just like anyone who does not share in the Gift of Men. So, some of their "cavalier-ness" might come from that fact. They might know that it is impossible for them to contravene fate, and so if they are fated to die, then die they will. And if they are not fated to die, then die they will not.

ashtonbaker 7y ago

In LOTR, the souls of dead elves go to the Halls of Mandos to await reincarnation, so there is an explanation. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Halls_of_Mandos https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Halls_of_Mandos

Swizec 7y ago

> The downside from even stepping outside, where you risk getting killed by a falling tree or any such random event, would be effectively infinite. And yet here we are, doing it every day even though our 80 year natural lifespan looks like immortality to all but a few other animal species.

peter303 7y ago

I suspect you could get used to immortality and not think about accidental deaths. That is pretty much the case with human teenagers.

einpoklum 7y ago

Well, most elves are not of the kind that's cavalier about their lives: They went to Valinor and stayed there. Or stayed put in Doriath for millennia and then went to Valinor. Or to Greenwood, stayed there for a few millennia, and then went to Valinor. You catch my drift...

logfromblammo 7y ago

The sociological response to the ossification of civilization, brought on by excessive longevity, is murder of the immortals. We currently have several septuagenarians duking it out to be our next elected executive leader. Imagine the political discord that would exist between generations if all the leaders were over seven hundred years old. We'd be warring constantly over the inequality. If one stays inside, eventually the 20th-generation scion of a human family that they have been collecting rents from all that time comes in to kill them, and free his children from the yoke of their undying ownership. Inspired, of course, by an alliance with their grandchild, who wants to inherit something of their own before they turn 500. It's not that they are cavalier with their lives, as fighting to wrest resources away from their elders, when Death refuses to help. The young have no place to call their own in which to stay. The old cannot fortify against every threat, and must project the impression that they take enough risks to die from their own activities, otherwise be murdered for calcifying local developments. Alternately, an immortal society could have a festival every century in which all property passes to one's living heirs, and the eldest living ancestor, who would otherwise receive no inheritance, is paid some cash by all their living descendants. I recall a story in which people above a certain age were banned from all governing roles, and could only fill advisory positions. Futurama had the retirement planet, where the eldest (a.k.a. Prof. Farnsworth) were imprisoned to keep them out of the way. Even the various cultural mythologies had new gods arising to slay and replace the old gods. It's very well explored--immortals get murdered. Even the Monkey King, who was six-ways immortal, faced execution, and when the gods discovered they couldn't kill him by any of the known methods of killing immortals, they instead put a mountain on top of him to keep him from moving.

ASalazarMX 7y ago

Counterpoint: humans are long-lived compared to other creatures, yet we don't dress in bubble wrap. A human life is normal length to us, and we would risk it if needed. Young soldiers risk death at a fourth of their potential lifespan.

snowwrestler 7y ago

I once saw a great comic strip that asked what if people truly valued their lives according to how many years they had left? The comic depicted young people cowering inside because they had so much to lose, and all the old people were out doing adventure sports and crime since they had so little left to lose. One old man gets sentenced to life in prison and he barks “Ha! What a bargain!”

atomicnumber3 7y ago

One thing that makes elves in Tolkien's works less OP is the fact that they are slaves to fate, just like anyone who does not share in the Gift of Men. So, some of their "cavalier-ness" might come from that fact. They might know that it is impossible for them to contravene fate, and so if they are fated to die, then die they will. And if they are not fated to die, then die they will not.