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HN's Facebook obsession is so unproductive. Let it go already. Focus on building your own thing. Yes, people use Facebook. No, you don't have to. Edit: yes, p

HN's Facebook obsession is so unproductive. Let it go already. Focus on building your own thing. Yes, people use Facebook. No, you don't have to. Edit: yes, please downvote this comment. Let the HN naval gazing continue.

saagarjha 7y ago
People who use Facebook often ask you to use Facebook, too…
- Calvin02 7y ago
  That’s a stupid argument. Plenty of people now state that they aren’t active on social networks. HN just has an unhealthy obsession with Facebook. Get over it already.
- tyfon 7y ago
  Not only that, they put events for our kids activities on facebook. I have to ask to be emailed about these events and often I get a screenshot of their facebook post! You should not have to be on a platform to participate and luckily everyone that I explained this problem to understands it and do send me the email with events. But it creates enormous pressure to be on the platform.
badrabbit 7y ago
FB is so detrimental to society, people that never use it need to be concerned much like with gambling and alcoholism. HN is hardly alone on this, plenty of other sites including redit and a few others that I know of hate on facebook regularly.
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  > FB is so detrimental to society, people that never use it need to be concerned much like with gambling and alcoholism. I don't get how Facebook is detrimental to society. Probably I am missing something. The majority of people do have an option to delete their account or simply not to log in. Apart from Facebook's involvement in scandals like Cambridge Analytica, I don't see what's wrong with the site or company. It's true that it can be used for causing harm, but that's true for almost every other tech out there.
  - CaptArmchair 7y ago
    That's the equivalent of the "guns don't kill people. People kill people." argument. It's a sort of "shifting the goalposts" fallacy. Tools, organization, policies,... are always an expression of a specific or a common intent. How Facebook moderates the platform, makes design choices, how it decides on what to show on your newsfeed,... all of that is intentional. Facebook isn't a public commons, it's not a space where people freely control the flow of the content they publish or control what they see or when they get to see it. Facebook is designed with the express goal of getting to know as much as possible about its tenants - "insights" in marketing speak - so it can then sell that information. The problem with Facebook is how 2nd and 3rd order network effects that disrupt the fabric of society, emerge through its sheer scale. What's wrong with the platform is that it is entirely unwilling to acknowledge those effects and happily shift responsibility towards society and individuals. If people aren't willing to delete their account, then that's because Facebook has captured how people communicate and understands that it plays into basic psychological behaviors such as FOMO, or that nobody likes to be an outsider. If literally everyone you know goes to the top place in town every thursday and saturday night, if all the gossip happens at that spot, well, it's extremely hard to stay clear of that without feeling left out.
    - Nasrudith 7y ago
      I don't see anything to actually blame them for specifically. Lots of insinutations and FUD but no actual claims of harm or what they should have done instead. You have described shady monetization but not the harm inflicted. If I measure everyone in town's height when they walk by a lamppost and sell it to clothing manufacturers I have gotten money due to them but I haven't stolen anything by any sensible framework. I mean I consider Facebook a pile of trash but that I recognize that the problem has always been the people who make up society being vapid, foolish, and vain caring more about it. Banning Facebook won't fix those problems - their ancestors have been witchhunting, engaging in stupid "reformations and moral crusades" that only make things worse without any redeeming values and lashing back at inconvenient facts long before Facebook.
      - 7y ago
Barrin92 7y ago
>Yes, people use Facebook. No, you don't have to. I know several people who essentially need to maintain facebook and other social media presence to be employed because they work in social media adjacent fields or journalism, where social networks are nowadays the main source to do basic things like get into contact with sources and so on. So no many people are actually dragged into these networks rather involuntarily. The same is also true when it comes to people's dating lives if one looks at the behaviour of particularly young people.
- Calvin02 7y ago
  I could have sworn that HN told me that Twitter is for journalists and not Facebook. Regardless, they presumably maintain a Facebook presence because that’s where people are, but that’s not where you have to be. Shocking, I know.
thrwaway69 7y ago
Not the first thing hn has a strong obsession with though. (Google? WeWork?) I bet many of the people here grind their teeths when they see mark Zuckerberg earning billions doing what they didn't and now can't because of Facebook Monopoly on social media apps. They patched up every way to connect inside their walled garden and grab the existing users. As a side note, make a Facebook account and never log in beside the first time with zillions of anti tracking plugins. People who will otherwise ask for your Facebook can just search your name (they do this first before asking) and send a friend request, and I doubt anyone would ask why you didn't accept their friend request because A. You might not like them or so will they think. They will be afraid to open up that they are bothered by you not accepting the friend request. After some time, if you remain friendly irl or on other platform they will think maybe you forgot or something. They will make up a reason for you that satisfies them of the image they have of you for not accepting the friend request. B. They simply send too many friend request to remember whether someone accepted or not.
hoka-one-one 7y ago
HN is a big echo chamber of non-experts thinking that they can do science not related to their 9-5, all in the name of feeling like they waste their lonely lives on a site that's slightly more intelligent than 4chan. Have an upvote!
stiray 7y ago
Or some of us have obsession about unhealthy distopia that is at the end of facebook road. May I recomend you a book? https://www.amazon.com/Age-Surveillance-Capitalism-Future-Frontier/dp/1610395697 https://www.amazon.com/Age-Surveillance-Capitalism-Future-Fr... Or, if books are not your thing, maybe watch Black Mirror - Nosedive (S03E01). You need to understand that some people are older than facebook and have seen the tranformation of human society since the Facebook came.
- rsa4046 7y ago
  Zuboff's book is excellent

saagarjha 7y ago

People who use Facebook often ask you to use Facebook, too…

Calvin02 7y ago
That’s a stupid argument. Plenty of people now state that they aren’t active on social networks. HN just has an unhealthy obsession with Facebook. Get over it already.
tyfon 7y ago
Not only that, they put events for our kids activities on facebook. I have to ask to be emailed about these events and often I get a screenshot of their facebook post! You should not have to be on a platform to participate and luckily everyone that I explained this problem to understands it and do send me the email with events. But it creates enormous pressure to be on the platform.

badrabbit 7y ago

FB is so detrimental to society, people that never use it need to be concerned much like with gambling and alcoholism. HN is hardly alone on this, plenty of other sites including redit and a few others that I know of hate on facebook regularly.

sbmthakur 7y ago
> FB is so detrimental to society, people that never use it need to be concerned much like with gambling and alcoholism. I don't get how Facebook is detrimental to society. Probably I am missing something. The majority of people do have an option to delete their account or simply not to log in. Apart from Facebook's involvement in scandals like Cambridge Analytica, I don't see what's wrong with the site or company. It's true that it can be used for causing harm, but that's true for almost every other tech out there.
- CaptArmchair 7y ago
  That's the equivalent of the "guns don't kill people. People kill people." argument. It's a sort of "shifting the goalposts" fallacy. Tools, organization, policies,... are always an expression of a specific or a common intent. How Facebook moderates the platform, makes design choices, how it decides on what to show on your newsfeed,... all of that is intentional. Facebook isn't a public commons, it's not a space where people freely control the flow of the content they publish or control what they see or when they get to see it. Facebook is designed with the express goal of getting to know as much as possible about its tenants - "insights" in marketing speak - so it can then sell that information. The problem with Facebook is how 2nd and 3rd order network effects that disrupt the fabric of society, emerge through its sheer scale. What's wrong with the platform is that it is entirely unwilling to acknowledge those effects and happily shift responsibility towards society and individuals. If people aren't willing to delete their account, then that's because Facebook has captured how people communicate and understands that it plays into basic psychological behaviors such as FOMO, or that nobody likes to be an outsider. If literally everyone you know goes to the top place in town every thursday and saturday night, if all the gossip happens at that spot, well, it's extremely hard to stay clear of that without feeling left out.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    I don't see anything to actually blame them for specifically. Lots of insinutations and FUD but no actual claims of harm or what they should have done instead. You have described shady monetization but not the harm inflicted. If I measure everyone in town's height when they walk by a lamppost and sell it to clothing manufacturers I have gotten money due to them but I haven't stolen anything by any sensible framework. I mean I consider Facebook a pile of trash but that I recognize that the problem has always been the people who make up society being vapid, foolish, and vain caring more about it. Banning Facebook won't fix those problems - their ancestors have been witchhunting, engaging in stupid "reformations and moral crusades" that only make things worse without any redeeming values and lashing back at inconvenient facts long before Facebook.
    - 7y ago

Barrin92 7y ago

>Yes, people use Facebook. No, you don't have to. I know several people who essentially need to maintain facebook and other social media presence to be employed because they work in social media adjacent fields or journalism, where social networks are nowadays the main source to do basic things like get into contact with sources and so on. So no many people are actually dragged into these networks rather involuntarily. The same is also true when it comes to people's dating lives if one looks at the behaviour of particularly young people.

Calvin02 7y ago
I could have sworn that HN told me that Twitter is for journalists and not Facebook. Regardless, they presumably maintain a Facebook presence because that’s where people are, but that’s not where you have to be. Shocking, I know.

thrwaway69 7y ago

Not the first thing hn has a strong obsession with though. (Google? WeWork?) I bet many of the people here grind their teeths when they see mark Zuckerberg earning billions doing what they didn't and now can't because of Facebook Monopoly on social media apps. They patched up every way to connect inside their walled garden and grab the existing users. As a side note, make a Facebook account and never log in beside the first time with zillions of anti tracking plugins. People who will otherwise ask for your Facebook can just search your name (they do this first before asking) and send a friend request, and I doubt anyone would ask why you didn't accept their friend request because A. You might not like them or so will they think. They will be afraid to open up that they are bothered by you not accepting the friend request. After some time, if you remain friendly irl or on other platform they will think maybe you forgot or something. They will make up a reason for you that satisfies them of the image they have of you for not accepting the friend request. B. They simply send too many friend request to remember whether someone accepted or not.

hoka-one-one 7y ago

HN is a big echo chamber of non-experts thinking that they can do science not related to their 9-5, all in the name of feeling like they waste their lonely lives on a site that's slightly more intelligent than 4chan. Have an upvote!

stiray 7y ago

Or some of us have obsession about unhealthy distopia that is at the end of facebook road. May I recomend you a book? https://www.amazon.com/Age-Surveillance-Capitalism-Future-Frontier/dp/1610395697 https://www.amazon.com/Age-Surveillance-Capitalism-Future-Fr... Or, if books are not your thing, maybe watch Black Mirror - Nosedive (S03E01). You need to understand that some people are older than facebook and have seen the tranformation of human society since the Facebook came.

rsa4046 7y ago
Zuboff's book is excellent