5 ms·

In 1979 when I was at school in a maths class the teacher (for some reason) was talking about graphine and how it would be a game changer when invented and I sa

by Zenst 7y ago

In 1979 when I was at school in a maths class the teacher (for some reason) was talking about graphine and how it would be a game changer when invented and I said - why don't you get a bit of pencil lead and put between two bits of cellotape, rinse repeat until you got a thin layer. I was lambasted and ridiculed by the teacher. THAT is another reason why it takes so long to invent X. People who shouldn't, quickly dismiss and idiot label anything outside the box of thinking. Still irks me, even today how I was not strong enough to stand my ground (probably been put in detention for answering back) and how I accepted that I was wrong.

hu3 7y ago
Happened to me as well. It hurts that I couldn't stand my ground while my ideas was being ridiculed by a college teacher in front of my colleagues. I know exactly how you feel. That day I learned the important lesson of not trusting "authorities" blindly.
- 6510 7y ago
  Yes, that is where you start questioning everything. If you never run into that situation and follow instructions to the letter the system will reward you to such extend that you cant imagine anything wrong with it. You will forever think you can have a negative number of baskets with a negative number of apples in each and by those means create as many apples as you like without involving trees in the process. Like Jesus.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Jesus worked on a bit higher level of mathematics. He literally Banach–Tarskied the bread.
    - Zenst 7y ago
      I had to look that one up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach%E2%80%93Tarski_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach%E2%80%93Tarski_paradox Which made for a nice chuckle and once I'd explained it to myself.
    - jagged-chisel 7y ago
      Talk about your empty calories
  - fragmede 7y ago
    As as lesson, "question authority" is twice as long lesson a "obey" and equally as pithy. Would you mind sharing a time where you found it was better not to question things so we may better understanding what values of "everything" you find useful? Presumably you are no longer two, and answer every question with "why". (Especially the question why, itself.")
- vnorilo 7y ago
  This type of response from a teacher baffles me. Why would you not just: "You see, the problem then becomes how do we (overcome the problem in the approach known to me)" Or, if I don't know why it would not work, suggest the student look into it, report back to everyone. With generous compensation in study credits or whatnot. Why would you ever laugh? I was a uni lecturer some 10 years ago.
  - someguyorother 7y ago
    It might not have been a university, and the teacher might not have been university level. Perhaps he just didn't know what made the suggestion impractical or wrong, he had just heard that graphene was the next big thing or whatever.
    - Zenst 7y ago
      This was the 70's, unsure of the teacher's actually qualifications of Miss Sidwick. Equally previously she had pulled me up for not showing the working out on some maths, I said I'd done it in my head and the answer is proof enough. Yes I appreciate now how people need to see how you got the answer - exam technique etc as without that they presume you cheated ;(. I was good at maths, though I was in the lower level maths class due to some X/Y system in which they took english and maths and chunked students together in a split along those lines (I'll touch upon that in a bit). I'd done an equation and the teacher said well you can't do it all in your head and proceeded to put (from a book) a two variable equation - something like 2x+5/y=7 - what is X and Y - something like that and I gave the answer to which the teacher said - well I want to see working out anyhow after the attempt to prove her point had failed to get the result and had expected me to fail to provide the answer. Later during mock exams I got 4 questions right that nobody in the entire school had gotten right and the head of maths (the good higher qualified maths teacher Mr Frost) who I had no dealing with pulled me aside and queried why I wasn't in his class. He even went to the head to try and get me transferred across but was shot down as my english was poor and even when I said, well you already have people with poor maths in the higher tier - that got dismissed and with that - much of my schooling was self educated. Heck I even had to argue to be allowed to do the computer studies course and only as I made a passionate plea directly to the head teacher (Mrs Creek) was I able to be allowed as I explained that it was my career vocation and not some whim and apparently made a strong case and was allowed. Turned out after first week of the class would come to me if they had a question before going to the teacher as I was that good at it. FYI - we are talking high school here in the UK - not university at all. In the UK it is primary school>secondary (high school)>A-level/college and then University. I did college BTEC computer studies and went straight into my first job working for government in IT and the youngest in the whole department by around 6 years. The school in question was Hadleigh High School in Suffolk and still there today and I'm sure has way better teachers mostly due to time advancement as the 70's was a long time ago. AS for the graphene - It was a case of they didn't have anything or way to make the single atom layer and that is when the idea of the sellotape and pencil lead came about having as a child messed about and saw it - though never rinse repeated infinitum - but having heard that, by the teacher they had yet to achieve that, postulated my idea and thoughts and the rest I explained. School wasn't a great place for me, lots of bullying - thngs like being autistic spectrum makes you social awkward and many thought I was gay and would be bullied because of that, this went on for years and less issue nowadays and when I went to teachers about it there response was "Well, are you gay", I said "No" and the response of "Well, what's the issue then" was classed as acceptable in the end. The bullying eventually stopped after I got forced into a fight and ended up putting the offender unconscious and in hospital for several days. Though do note that I had done everything possible to avoid that fight and in the end didn't even get a detention. Though standing in a hallway as a child balling your eyes out thinking I'd killed somebody and my life was over is an experience far worse than any false punishment. Though experiences at primary school was just as bad and I was a terrible swimmer - needed so many swimming aids that I looked like the Michelin man. We always had a swim race end of year term and as I couldn't swim I didn't want to do it, yet I was made to partake and as you can expect - everybody had a great laugh at my expense. Year later I'd spent whole year learning to swim, joined a swimming club and got really good, swam for the county. That year - all the other students refused to partake if I was allowed to swim and guess what - the teacher didn't make them swim and denied me of my social justice. So in short - school was pretty darn shit from my perspective and experience. But that is and was down to my autistic spectrum.
_fizz_buzz_ 7y ago
> why don't you get a bit of pencil lead and put between two bits of cellotape, rinse repeat until you got a thin layer. I am a bit skeptical of your Account, but it is also not quite as trivial as that. The key insight wasn’t just the mechanical exfoliation (scotch tape Methode). This had been used before and wasn’t new by itself. The key insight was transferring it onto a SiO2 substrate. So, no worries you most likely did not miss out on your Nobel Prize ;)
- 6510 7y ago
  Its not about that, its about dismissing practical trains of thought - outright. Ironically, the author of the article is such a person. > To invent something is to invent a practical version of that thing. It is not. Like with everything from the chain of command to the chain of events it takes all links in the chain to make it a chain. You might as well argue that it is marketing that is responsible for the invention or that the consumer in their decision to purchase the newfangled contraption decides if the invention is real or not. Or no wait, the financier, he is the true visionary. > If your “invention” is impractical, it’s just a demo or prototype Oh, that is only this and that. Someone who trivializes the prototype doesn't have what it takes to envision it, let alone make it. Hardly a position fromwhich to judge those who did and do.
  - fsloth 7y ago
    I suppose from point of view of idea retention and acceptance - for the idea to go 'viral' - you need a strong practical example. Humans are really great at taking into use new practical tools. Not so much taking in a half-established concept and turning it into something usefull. So, from point of view of innovation, you are right. From the point of view of what matters from historical perspective to get a new idea stick, the author has a strong point.
  - sriku 7y ago
    Furthermore, if I understand the position, the patent office would not agree to the OP's definition either .. as long as the original maker of the "prototype" could describe the mechanism well enough. The inventor of the "practical" version would have to articulate what it took above and beyond the prototype and even then only be able to patent that part and not including the invention covered by the proto.

by Zenst 7y ago

hu3 7y ago

Happened to me as well. It hurts that I couldn't stand my ground while my ideas was being ridiculed by a college teacher in front of my colleagues. I know exactly how you feel. That day I learned the important lesson of not trusting "authorities" blindly.

6510 7y ago
Yes, that is where you start questioning everything. If you never run into that situation and follow instructions to the letter the system will reward you to such extend that you cant imagine anything wrong with it. You will forever think you can have a negative number of baskets with a negative number of apples in each and by those means create as many apples as you like without involving trees in the process. Like Jesus.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Jesus worked on a bit higher level of mathematics. He literally Banach–Tarskied the bread.
  - Zenst 7y ago
    I had to look that one up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach%E2%80%93Tarski_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach%E2%80%93Tarski_paradox Which made for a nice chuckle and once I'd explained it to myself.
  - jagged-chisel 7y ago
    Talk about your empty calories
- fragmede 7y ago
  As as lesson, "question authority" is twice as long lesson a "obey" and equally as pithy. Would you mind sharing a time where you found it was better not to question things so we may better understanding what values of "everything" you find useful? Presumably you are no longer two, and answer every question with "why". (Especially the question why, itself.")
vnorilo 7y ago
This type of response from a teacher baffles me. Why would you not just: "You see, the problem then becomes how do we (overcome the problem in the approach known to me)" Or, if I don't know why it would not work, suggest the student look into it, report back to everyone. With generous compensation in study credits or whatnot. Why would you ever laugh? I was a uni lecturer some 10 years ago.
- someguyorother 7y ago
  It might not have been a university, and the teacher might not have been university level. Perhaps he just didn't know what made the suggestion impractical or wrong, he had just heard that graphene was the next big thing or whatever.
  - Zenst 7y ago
    This was the 70's, unsure of the teacher's actually qualifications of Miss Sidwick. Equally previously she had pulled me up for not showing the working out on some maths, I said I'd done it in my head and the answer is proof enough. Yes I appreciate now how people need to see how you got the answer - exam technique etc as without that they presume you cheated ;(. I was good at maths, though I was in the lower level maths class due to some X/Y system in which they took english and maths and chunked students together in a split along those lines (I'll touch upon that in a bit). I'd done an equation and the teacher said well you can't do it all in your head and proceeded to put (from a book) a two variable equation - something like 2x+5/y=7 - what is X and Y - something like that and I gave the answer to which the teacher said - well I want to see working out anyhow after the attempt to prove her point had failed to get the result and had expected me to fail to provide the answer. Later during mock exams I got 4 questions right that nobody in the entire school had gotten right and the head of maths (the good higher qualified maths teacher Mr Frost) who I had no dealing with pulled me aside and queried why I wasn't in his class. He even went to the head to try and get me transferred across but was shot down as my english was poor and even when I said, well you already have people with poor maths in the higher tier - that got dismissed and with that - much of my schooling was self educated. Heck I even had to argue to be allowed to do the computer studies course and only as I made a passionate plea directly to the head teacher (Mrs Creek) was I able to be allowed as I explained that it was my career vocation and not some whim and apparently made a strong case and was allowed. Turned out after first week of the class would come to me if they had a question before going to the teacher as I was that good at it. FYI - we are talking high school here in the UK - not university at all. In the UK it is primary school>secondary (high school)>A-level/college and then University. I did college BTEC computer studies and went straight into my first job working for government in IT and the youngest in the whole department by around 6 years. The school in question was Hadleigh High School in Suffolk and still there today and I'm sure has way better teachers mostly due to time advancement as the 70's was a long time ago. AS for the graphene - It was a case of they didn't have anything or way to make the single atom layer and that is when the idea of the sellotape and pencil lead came about having as a child messed about and saw it - though never rinse repeated infinitum - but having heard that, by the teacher they had yet to achieve that, postulated my idea and thoughts and the rest I explained. School wasn't a great place for me, lots of bullying - thngs like being autistic spectrum makes you social awkward and many thought I was gay and would be bullied because of that, this went on for years and less issue nowadays and when I went to teachers about it there response was "Well, are you gay", I said "No" and the response of "Well, what's the issue then" was classed as acceptable in the end. The bullying eventually stopped after I got forced into a fight and ended up putting the offender unconscious and in hospital for several days. Though do note that I had done everything possible to avoid that fight and in the end didn't even get a detention. Though standing in a hallway as a child balling your eyes out thinking I'd killed somebody and my life was over is an experience far worse than any false punishment. Though experiences at primary school was just as bad and I was a terrible swimmer - needed so many swimming aids that I looked like the Michelin man. We always had a swim race end of year term and as I couldn't swim I didn't want to do it, yet I was made to partake and as you can expect - everybody had a great laugh at my expense. Year later I'd spent whole year learning to swim, joined a swimming club and got really good, swam for the county. That year - all the other students refused to partake if I was allowed to swim and guess what - the teacher didn't make them swim and denied me of my social justice. So in short - school was pretty darn shit from my perspective and experience. But that is and was down to my autistic spectrum.

_fizz_buzz_ 7y ago

> why don't you get a bit of pencil lead and put between two bits of cellotape, rinse repeat until you got a thin layer. I am a bit skeptical of your Account, but it is also not quite as trivial as that. The key insight wasn’t just the mechanical exfoliation (scotch tape Methode). This had been used before and wasn’t new by itself. The key insight was transferring it onto a SiO2 substrate. So, no worries you most likely did not miss out on your Nobel Prize ;)

6510 7y ago
Its not about that, its about dismissing practical trains of thought - outright. Ironically, the author of the article is such a person. > To invent something is to invent a practical version of that thing. It is not. Like with everything from the chain of command to the chain of events it takes all links in the chain to make it a chain. You might as well argue that it is marketing that is responsible for the invention or that the consumer in their decision to purchase the newfangled contraption decides if the invention is real or not. Or no wait, the financier, he is the true visionary. > If your “invention” is impractical, it’s just a demo or prototype Oh, that is only this and that. Someone who trivializes the prototype doesn't have what it takes to envision it, let alone make it. Hardly a position fromwhich to judge those who did and do.
- fsloth 7y ago
  I suppose from point of view of idea retention and acceptance - for the idea to go 'viral' - you need a strong practical example. Humans are really great at taking into use new practical tools. Not so much taking in a half-established concept and turning it into something usefull. So, from point of view of innovation, you are right. From the point of view of what matters from historical perspective to get a new idea stick, the author has a strong point.
- sriku 7y ago
  Furthermore, if I understand the position, the patent office would not agree to the OP's definition either .. as long as the original maker of the "prototype" could describe the mechanism well enough. The inventor of the "practical" version would have to articulate what it took above and beyond the prototype and even then only be able to patent that part and not including the invention covered by the proto.