4 ms·

Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. A union-negotiated contract that's better than the one you'd get without the union is, well, better. It might not

Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. A union-negotiated contract that's better than the one you'd get without the union is, well, better. It might not be "fair" or flawless, but it's still better.

kortilla 7y ago
Unless it’s worse. The assumption that forming a union and entering into effectively hostile negotiations with the company will result in a better compensation is unfounded.
- jdm2212 7y ago
  It varies by country and even in the US it varies by industry. A lot of European countries have a less adversarial relationship between organized labor and management and workers benefit greatly. Public sector unions in the US, and the teamsters, and Culinary in Las Vegas, etc. don't seem to leave their workers worse off either.
- simonh 7y ago
  It's perfectly founded, because I have seen it happen. Back in the 80s was a Thatcher believer, still am really, but in the 90s I was a member of a moderate public sector union in the UK and saw it working from the inside. It was a real eye opener, the union had huge experience in health and safety (a significant issue in that organisation), the unintended side effects of various policies and procedures, all sorts of things and actually worked very well with management to represent legitimate concerns. It doesn't always work, in some industries I can see the relationship is much more confrontational and damaging, but it doesn't have to be that way.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    It can’t be “perfectly founded“ if it “doesn’t always work”.
- diffeomorphism 7y ago
  > The assumption ... is unfounded. Considering that many, many countries exist where this is the case (most of the time), this seems to be very well founded.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    But they were in a country where the relationship has been bad since the beginning
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  I would say it's mostly better most of the time; they can go badly. Obligatory Futurama quote to illustrate the point: > Hermes: So you're telling me I could fire my whole staff and hire Grunka Lunkas at half the cost? > Glurmo: That's right. They think they have a good union but they don't. [whispering] They're basically slaves.
- corinroyal 7y ago
  Says a guy who never bothered to learn labor history, but feels he must know better anyway because somebody pays him good money for something. HN in a nutshell.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    I find it hard to believe anyone that knows anything about labor history in the US could assume that company/union relations can be assumed to go well.

kortilla 7y ago

Unless it’s worse. The assumption that forming a union and entering into effectively hostile negotiations with the company will result in a better compensation is unfounded.

jdm2212 7y ago
It varies by country and even in the US it varies by industry. A lot of European countries have a less adversarial relationship between organized labor and management and workers benefit greatly. Public sector unions in the US, and the teamsters, and Culinary in Las Vegas, etc. don't seem to leave their workers worse off either.
simonh 7y ago
It's perfectly founded, because I have seen it happen. Back in the 80s was a Thatcher believer, still am really, but in the 90s I was a member of a moderate public sector union in the UK and saw it working from the inside. It was a real eye opener, the union had huge experience in health and safety (a significant issue in that organisation), the unintended side effects of various policies and procedures, all sorts of things and actually worked very well with management to represent legitimate concerns. It doesn't always work, in some industries I can see the relationship is much more confrontational and damaging, but it doesn't have to be that way.
- kortilla 7y ago
  It can’t be “perfectly founded“ if it “doesn’t always work”.
diffeomorphism 7y ago
> The assumption ... is unfounded. Considering that many, many countries exist where this is the case (most of the time), this seems to be very well founded.
- kortilla 7y ago
  But they were in a country where the relationship has been bad since the beginning
blaser-waffle 7y ago
I would say it's mostly better most of the time; they can go badly. Obligatory Futurama quote to illustrate the point: > Hermes: So you're telling me I could fire my whole staff and hire Grunka Lunkas at half the cost? > Glurmo: That's right. They think they have a good union but they don't. [whispering] They're basically slaves.
corinroyal 7y ago
Says a guy who never bothered to learn labor history, but feels he must know better anyway because somebody pays him good money for something. HN in a nutshell.
- kortilla 7y ago
  I find it hard to believe anyone that knows anything about labor history in the US could assume that company/union relations can be assumed to go well.