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Striking when it's convenient is worthless. Perhaps if the students weren't so entitled, they'd understand that solidarity is important and that grades should b

Striking when it's convenient is worthless. Perhaps if the students weren't so entitled, they'd understand that solidarity is important and that grades should be handled. Furthermore, you have to realize the university is punishing you to turn you against the grad students... and it appears they have succeeded. If I were an ugrad there, I'd be right there with the grad students. I was an ugrad at another UC where 2/3 of my classes were cancelled because lecturers got jobs at startups in the dotcom times, and they made a habit of not scheduling upper-div major classes frequently enough to stay full-time for the year. haha.

CamperBob2 7y ago
Eh, sounds like the grad students are doing the punishing. Their cause is noble, I'm sure, right up until it interferes with my education (and thus my career path). They need to find a way to exert leverage on the people who can satisfy their demands -- meaning the University -- and not on people who are basically innocent customers.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
valid4life 7y ago
I agree that striking when its convenient is worthless, but at the same time, I have various emails from my direct TAs and the COLA organization as a whole mentioning the intent is to not harm undergrads, but here we are... Additionally, I'm not sure where youre getting the students are "entitled". I work and take loans out in order to go to this school, takes classes, and receive my grades. Am I entitled for wanting what I pay for? The administration is not withholding grades, the graduates are. I understand that they're doing it as a result of the administration, but why are we (undergraduates) sitting in the middle taking heat from both sides? I'm happy you would be out there striking as thats your right, but to call me entitled is a tad bit much no? The response on the UCSC subreddit is similar - youre either entitled or a bootlicker if you don't join the cause. I am unsure how that is supposed to make me support the cause?
- anonsivalley652 7y ago
  Name calling, binary thinking and whining aren't constructive. Good luck in the real world if you haven't yet learned the Golden Rule or grown thicker skin, because a degree won't matter if your attitude is reactive or poor.
  - valid4life 7y ago
    > Name Calling I did not mean to come across this way or call you any names - can you point where I did so I won't repeat it? My skin is plenty thick, and this back and forth isn't meant to be whining. I'm just curious about your approach to this and it is fun to hear others perspectives, especially on such a polarizing topic. I'm a little perplexed on this reply to be honest. How is this constructive? I'm open to hearing how you think I can improve and help me understand how my attitude is reactive or poor.
    - dang 7y ago
      I'm the lead moderator here. Your comments are fine, you didn't call names, and you're welcome here. I hope you'll continue to particpate!
      - valid4life 7y ago
        Thank you! Been a lurker for a long time now at the suggestion of a coworker. I felt like a could contribute a different perspective in this thread so I made the account. Appreciate the work you do moderating!
  - dang 7y ago
    You've broken the site guidelines repeatedly in this thread and now have even crossed into personal attack. That's not ok, so please stop. It's especially not ok to harass a new user in this way; who are we if that's how we treat people who are trying to join this community? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 7y ago
lobotryas 7y ago
Is it Ok to strike when that will hurt innocents? I think we can all agree that having nurses strike and abandon care of their patients is unfair to those patients. This fight should be between UCSC and the graduates, not holding innocent undergrads hostage in the middle.
- asdff 7y ago
  The only reason why undergraduates are 'held hostage' is due the policies of the university. The reason why grades are not posted is due to the university. The reason why people aren't able to graduate is due to policies stipulated by the university. In most other universities, professors submit grades and are free to grade their own exams. TAs are there to just get through the stack of exams a little faster than the professor working on that same stack themselves. The TAs don't hold any sacred power in this scenario, they aren't needed at all actually, they just add an extra sets of hands to check or cross out answers on a piece of paper. That's it. There is no bylaw stating your grades must be submitted by a graduate student and no other, but if there were, it is the university that is enforcing the bylaw. This narrative that grades can only be submitted by the TAs does not seem right, it seems like a narrative designed to put a wedge in the student body by spreading around a fundamental misunderstanding on how grading and graduation occurs at a university.
  - lobotryas 7y ago
    You wrote a lot but I am struggling to see your point. The TAs tried holding student grades hostage as leverage in their strike. Now some are withholding those grades for work they reviewed out of spite after being fired. They are hurting innocent students and potentially wrecking/derailing careers and lives. This latter part is a fact. The difference is that sone people here think this is an acceptable price to pay for the TAs to make more money. The rest of us think that’s a BS position.
    - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
      Systematically it sounds insane that the TAs are wholly responsible for grading but they don't get to teach the class, and they don't get paid enough to live. How can you expect a TA to grade appropriately if they are starving? I would blame management for shitty TAs resulting in shitty work, than the TAs for breaking under unlivable conditions.

CamperBob2 7y ago

Eh, sounds like the grad students are doing the punishing. Their cause is noble, I'm sure, right up until it interferes with my education (and thus my career path). They need to find a way to exert leverage on the people who can satisfy their demands -- meaning the University -- and not on people who are basically innocent customers.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

valid4life 7y ago

I agree that striking when its convenient is worthless, but at the same time, I have various emails from my direct TAs and the COLA organization as a whole mentioning the intent is to not harm undergrads, but here we are... Additionally, I'm not sure where youre getting the students are "entitled". I work and take loans out in order to go to this school, takes classes, and receive my grades. Am I entitled for wanting what I pay for? The administration is not withholding grades, the graduates are. I understand that they're doing it as a result of the administration, but why are we (undergraduates) sitting in the middle taking heat from both sides? I'm happy you would be out there striking as thats your right, but to call me entitled is a tad bit much no? The response on the UCSC subreddit is similar - youre either entitled or a bootlicker if you don't join the cause. I am unsure how that is supposed to make me support the cause?

anonsivalley652 7y ago
Name calling, binary thinking and whining aren't constructive. Good luck in the real world if you haven't yet learned the Golden Rule or grown thicker skin, because a degree won't matter if your attitude is reactive or poor.
- valid4life 7y ago
  > Name Calling I did not mean to come across this way or call you any names - can you point where I did so I won't repeat it? My skin is plenty thick, and this back and forth isn't meant to be whining. I'm just curious about your approach to this and it is fun to hear others perspectives, especially on such a polarizing topic. I'm a little perplexed on this reply to be honest. How is this constructive? I'm open to hearing how you think I can improve and help me understand how my attitude is reactive or poor.
  - dang 7y ago
    I'm the lead moderator here. Your comments are fine, you didn't call names, and you're welcome here. I hope you'll continue to particpate!
    - valid4life 7y ago
      Thank you! Been a lurker for a long time now at the suggestion of a coworker. I felt like a could contribute a different perspective in this thread so I made the account. Appreciate the work you do moderating!
- dang 7y ago
  You've broken the site guidelines repeatedly in this thread and now have even crossed into personal attack. That's not ok, so please stop. It's especially not ok to harass a new user in this way; who are we if that's how we treat people who are trying to join this community? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
7y ago

lobotryas 7y ago

Is it Ok to strike when that will hurt innocents? I think we can all agree that having nurses strike and abandon care of their patients is unfair to those patients. This fight should be between UCSC and the graduates, not holding innocent undergrads hostage in the middle.

asdff 7y ago
The only reason why undergraduates are 'held hostage' is due the policies of the university. The reason why grades are not posted is due to the university. The reason why people aren't able to graduate is due to policies stipulated by the university. In most other universities, professors submit grades and are free to grade their own exams. TAs are there to just get through the stack of exams a little faster than the professor working on that same stack themselves. The TAs don't hold any sacred power in this scenario, they aren't needed at all actually, they just add an extra sets of hands to check or cross out answers on a piece of paper. That's it. There is no bylaw stating your grades must be submitted by a graduate student and no other, but if there were, it is the university that is enforcing the bylaw. This narrative that grades can only be submitted by the TAs does not seem right, it seems like a narrative designed to put a wedge in the student body by spreading around a fundamental misunderstanding on how grading and graduation occurs at a university.
- lobotryas 7y ago
  You wrote a lot but I am struggling to see your point. The TAs tried holding student grades hostage as leverage in their strike. Now some are withholding those grades for work they reviewed out of spite after being fired. They are hurting innocent students and potentially wrecking/derailing careers and lives. This latter part is a fact. The difference is that sone people here think this is an acceptable price to pay for the TAs to make more money. The rest of us think that’s a BS position.
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    Systematically it sounds insane that the TAs are wholly responsible for grading but they don't get to teach the class, and they don't get paid enough to live. How can you expect a TA to grade appropriately if they are starving? I would blame management for shitty TAs resulting in shitty work, than the TAs for breaking under unlivable conditions.