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> You get paid by market rate; I love how people dismiss injustice with an appeal to "the market" as if the market was a force of nature rather than a manmade

> You get paid by market rate; I love how people dismiss injustice with an appeal to "the market" as if the market was a force of nature rather than a manmade and human manipulated entity. Markets are created by a handful of people and affected by laws. And supply and demand is also an man-made creation. For example, by creating laws allowing seasonal migrants, you could affect the wages of farm workers. The same thing with work visas like H1-B. Also, laws favoring employers' rights and workers' rights can also affect wages. And of course "credentialing" and artificially limiting supply in the case of doctors affects wages. > Universities are a competitive business, too; Not really. Pretty much all the top universities stay at the top because of legacy. Also UC Santa Cruz is a public university. Very little chance it is going to be out-competed and put out of business.

dragonwriter 7y ago
> Also UC Santa Cruz is a public university. Very little chance it is going to be out-competed and put out of business. Where do you think UC as a public institution would be if it lost political support of the faction allied with organized labor? It already doesn't have support from the opposing faction.
canjobear 7y ago
> Also UC Santa Cruz is a public university. Very little chance it is going to be out-competed and put out of business. Relatively little of the funding for the UC's comes from the state. Tuition is a much larger percentage. So they do have a concern of being out-competed. https://www.dailycal.org/2018/08/08/2018-uc-accountability-report-shows-high-enrollment-despite-low-state-funding/ https://www.dailycal.org/2018/08/08/2018-uc-accountability-r...
allovernow 7y ago
>than a manmade and human manipulated entity. The market is an emergency force. It isn't determined by a secret cabal of evil capitalists. It may not be a "force of nature" (although that is debatable because it is a direct consequence of natural properties like scarcity), but that doesn't mean it can be simply up and changed. >Markets are created by a handful of people and affected by laws I bake a bunch of bread. You grow a bunch of potatoes. We are both willing to trade. That's a market. All people participate in the market if they consume goods and/or offer labor.
- legolas2412 7y ago
  Not the OP. Maybe the protests and the media coverage are an important part of spreading information and correcting the demand problem for academic positions. We need to tell the world that academia is not what it is presented as. Your position is akin to opposing online restuarant reviews because why put reviews online if the market will put bad restaurants out of business..
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > The market is an emergency force. Do you mean emergent force? > It isn't determined by a secret cabal of evil capitalists. Capitalists? Socialists, communists, monarchs, mercantilists, etc also use laws to create and manipulate "the market". The US, China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, EU, etc all create markets. Not all of them are a cabal of evil capitalists. I was talking about markets, not capitalism. Markets exist with or without capitalism. Two people could just form a market as you noted below. > although that is debatable because it is a direct consequence of natural properties like scarcity You can force scarcity through laws as well. Coal, fishing, diamonds, etc being examples. > but that doesn't mean it can be simply up and changed. It sure as hell can influence it. Which was my point. > I bake a bunch of bread. You grow a bunch of potatoes. We are both willing to trade. That's a market. In other words "a manmade and human manipulated entity". Just because a "cabal of evil capitalists" doesn't say a doctor should make $100,000 doesn't mean that the "market" isn't manmade and manipulated. We could relax laws and allow a flood of doctors from around the world and I suspect doctors' wages would decline. You get the idea? The market is no more an "emergent force" than the rules of monopoly are an emergent force. No more than cities, governments, etc are emergent forces. They are all man-made structures with levels of human manipulation.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> Also UC Santa Cruz is a public university. Very little chance it is going to be out-competed and put out of business. Where do you think UC as a public institution would be if it lost political support of the faction allied with organized labor? It already doesn't have support from the opposing faction.

canjobear 7y ago

> Also UC Santa Cruz is a public university. Very little chance it is going to be out-competed and put out of business. Relatively little of the funding for the UC's comes from the state. Tuition is a much larger percentage. So they do have a concern of being out-competed. https://www.dailycal.org/2018/08/08/2018-uc-accountability-report-shows-high-enrollment-despite-low-state-funding/ https://www.dailycal.org/2018/08/08/2018-uc-accountability-r...

allovernow 7y ago

>than a manmade and human manipulated entity. The market is an emergency force. It isn't determined by a secret cabal of evil capitalists. It may not be a "force of nature" (although that is debatable because it is a direct consequence of natural properties like scarcity), but that doesn't mean it can be simply up and changed. >Markets are created by a handful of people and affected by laws I bake a bunch of bread. You grow a bunch of potatoes. We are both willing to trade. That's a market. All people participate in the market if they consume goods and/or offer labor.

legolas2412 7y ago
Not the OP. Maybe the protests and the media coverage are an important part of spreading information and correcting the demand problem for academic positions. We need to tell the world that academia is not what it is presented as. Your position is akin to opposing online restuarant reviews because why put reviews online if the market will put bad restaurants out of business..
dntbnmpls 7y ago
> The market is an emergency force. Do you mean emergent force? > It isn't determined by a secret cabal of evil capitalists. Capitalists? Socialists, communists, monarchs, mercantilists, etc also use laws to create and manipulate "the market". The US, China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, EU, etc all create markets. Not all of them are a cabal of evil capitalists. I was talking about markets, not capitalism. Markets exist with or without capitalism. Two people could just form a market as you noted below. > although that is debatable because it is a direct consequence of natural properties like scarcity You can force scarcity through laws as well. Coal, fishing, diamonds, etc being examples. > but that doesn't mean it can be simply up and changed. It sure as hell can influence it. Which was my point. > I bake a bunch of bread. You grow a bunch of potatoes. We are both willing to trade. That's a market. In other words "a manmade and human manipulated entity". Just because a "cabal of evil capitalists" doesn't say a doctor should make $100,000 doesn't mean that the "market" isn't manmade and manipulated. We could relax laws and allow a flood of doctors from around the world and I suspect doctors' wages would decline. You get the idea? The market is no more an "emergent force" than the rules of monopoly are an emergent force. No more than cities, governments, etc are emergent forces. They are all man-made structures with levels of human manipulation.