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PhD in Europe is different than in the US. There's is very little industry-academia support in terms of working while doing your PhD. From Princeton's policies

PhD in Europe is different than in the US. There's is very little industry-academia support in terms of working while doing your PhD. From Princeton's policies, particularly the last sentence: "Graduate study at Princeton, at both the doctoral and, in most cases, the master’s level, requires full-time commitment to study and research on the part of students. The Graduate School’s financial support structure, which extends throughout the length of the student’s program and ordinarily includes summers, is one indication of that requirement. Accordingly, the Graduate School considers employment beyond full fellowship, teaching or research support or its equivalent to be incompatible with full-time graduate study."[0] It's even worse for international students. Under F1 visa, you can't work more than 20 hours on campus. However, all TA positions are deemed 20 hours of work. So you can't even work at the campus gym if you want. [0] - https://gradschool.princeton.edu/policies/employment https://gradschool.princeton.edu/policies/employment

tnecniv 7y ago
> However, all TA positions are deemed 20 hours of work. So you can't even work at the campus gym if you want. This is not true at Princeton. Unless they are without funding, PhD students there commonly only work 10 hours per week (nominally) as TAs. The regular stipend is also generous compared to many other programs.
- hervature 7y ago
  From the same link: "This means that international students on a full AI or full AR appointment are not eligible for additional on-campus work, even if the Graduate School employment policy would otherwise allow it."
roel_v 7y ago
You're talking about having a side job while doing a PhD. GP is talking about (as I understand it - not to put words in their mouth) having a job that will let you take some of the work you do there and turn it into a PhD. Which, admittedly, is not a very well-known or advertised route, but one that is a much better deal than the 'take internship-level pay for years for the privilege of being exploited or ignored'.
- hervature 7y ago
  No, I am also talking about the same thing. But you correctly distinguish Europe vs. US. To make progress towards your PhD while working for company in the US, you typically need to be enrolled in a department approved "class" that is basically an internship. To be enrolled in these classes, you need to be a full-time student. Most departments outside of CS and EE don't allow for these courses. Obviously, this is going to be highly nuanced with regard to how each university/department implements it. For example, my department only allows summer internships and requires approval from Advisor and Director of Graduate Studies.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> requires full-time commitment to study and research on the part of students How can they say this, and then also ask their graduate students to teach? They're contradicting themselves.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  All things are true as long as they benefit the people in power in an institution. Contradictory things are simultaneously true. All justifications for the current system, which works well for the PTB are just obviously the case.

tnecniv 7y ago

> However, all TA positions are deemed 20 hours of work. So you can't even work at the campus gym if you want. This is not true at Princeton. Unless they are without funding, PhD students there commonly only work 10 hours per week (nominally) as TAs. The regular stipend is also generous compared to many other programs.

hervature 7y ago
From the same link: "This means that international students on a full AI or full AR appointment are not eligible for additional on-campus work, even if the Graduate School employment policy would otherwise allow it."

roel_v 7y ago

You're talking about having a side job while doing a PhD. GP is talking about (as I understand it - not to put words in their mouth) having a job that will let you take some of the work you do there and turn it into a PhD. Which, admittedly, is not a very well-known or advertised route, but one that is a much better deal than the 'take internship-level pay for years for the privilege of being exploited or ignored'.

hervature 7y ago
No, I am also talking about the same thing. But you correctly distinguish Europe vs. US. To make progress towards your PhD while working for company in the US, you typically need to be enrolled in a department approved "class" that is basically an internship. To be enrolled in these classes, you need to be a full-time student. Most departments outside of CS and EE don't allow for these courses. Obviously, this is going to be highly nuanced with regard to how each university/department implements it. For example, my department only allows summer internships and requires approval from Advisor and Director of Graduate Studies.

chrisseaton 7y ago

> requires full-time commitment to study and research on the part of students How can they say this, and then also ask their graduate students to teach? They're contradicting themselves.

barry-cotter 7y ago
All things are true as long as they benefit the people in power in an institution. Contradictory things are simultaneously true. All justifications for the current system, which works well for the PTB are just obviously the case.