4 ms·

I disagree, since the 90s in Ireland every convenience store big enough to have a deli counter has been selling Cuisine de France baguettes. Usually as the popu

by sjf 7y ago

I disagree, since the 90s in Ireland every convenience store big enough to have a deli counter has been selling Cuisine de France baguettes. Usually as the popular breakfast roll or chicken fillet roll. They are mass produced and crispy, they are cooked in store by staff with no special training.

brians 7y ago
What makes you think they have only those five ingredients? I’d bet on more gluten, malt, potato starch, a couple exotic salts, and more.
- BigBubbleButt 7y ago
  https://www.innit.com/nutrition/cuisine-de-france-demi-baguette-french-bread/p/00667121001547 https://www.innit.com/nutrition/cuisine-de-france-demi-bague... It uses enriched flour (which I doubt makes much difference), but also adds conditioner which really is the culprit of being engineered for mass production.
- roel_v 7y ago
  There is nothing wrong with most additives. Even so-called 'artisanal' bakers add 'bread improvers', which contain things like 'ascorbic acid' (ooohh scary! except that its common name is... vitamin C), enzymes or some fast sugars that are entirely converted to alcohol and CO2 by the yeast (i.e. they're just used as yeast feed, no extra sweetness to the final product). My mother used to work with a woman who later opened a bakery with her husband and they were well known in the surrounding area for their great bread and bread rolls (this was in Belgium - similar style of bread as in France, baguettes not quite as good but often very close; just saying this wasn't some American sogginess). When I got into making bread at home, I asked him about his special trick to make great bread. The first one was 'experience', i.e. practicing the procedure dozens of times until its perfectly repeatable. And the second was 'a pinch out of my special jar' which he bought from a generic wholesale baking supplies vendor, and which contained the things I mentioned above. I always add a crushed vitamin C tablet to bread I make; it really helps with the gluten development and the quality of the rise. But most online bread making communities are full of idiots who recoil in horror at such sacrilege - they're all like "if I wanted bread full of chemical additives, I'd buy it in the store" rollseyes. But if you suggest they add a squeeze of lemon juice they they're all cool with it, they just complain about they don't want the slight lemon taste to their bread. Sigh. Don't get me started on nitrate as a preservative in sausage making and the idiocy 'biological sausage makers' spew about that...
  - NikolaeVarius 7y ago
    Start renaming things MSG = Kombu Salt Nitrates = Celery Juice (though this is already done) HFCS = Artisnal Corn Sugar
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    "some American sogginess" The equation of American bread with Wonder Bread is really tired and offensive. Maybe you should spin some tale about how American flour is so, so, different that making bread with flour, salt, yeast and water is so different than in Europe and it comes out completely inedible to those of refined palate.
    - roel_v 7y ago
      Eh, I don't think using "American bread" as an expression for bad bread is all that horrible, just like "being on Italian time" (or Brazilian or whatever) or for people who are habitually late or "going Dutch" for splitting a bill is all that bad - even when I do know Italians and Brazilians who are always on time, and Dutch people who will pay for their table. Then again, it's 2020, so I guess I should change colloquialisms like this.
      - wideasleep1 7y ago
        In defense of America, our San Francisco Sourdough is only soggy when used to sop up the chowder.
    - asveikau 7y ago
      My complaint about bread here in the states (I am American) is not that it's soggy so much as Americans have very high tolerance for stale bread, which means stores will often leave stale bread to fill the shelves completely, and I guess less "artisanal" brands will make their bread much less appealing when fresh because the market tolerates bland, hard textured, flavorless goods. This varies a lot with the store and in what town you buy the bread. I didn't have this complaint as much in the Northeast as I did out west. But out west, you can find the good stuff if you are more selective and pay more.
Kuinox 7y ago
I didn't saw yet a single industrial baguette that was better than what my local baker does. Industrial one may be crispy but have nothing like a good one.
- throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
  They’re pretty good though. And also cheaper. The same argument could be made of chips.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  You can take any random supermarket bread and say it happens to not be as good as your standard, but the process that makes it mass market, making the dough and freezing it in the factory, and baking it in a store, I don't believe has to meaningfully compromise the quality. I don't know how it would be better, but I don't think it has to be worse.
  - bigbaguette 7y ago
    The manufacturing process makes them worse. On a mass scale, every cent counts and the first thing to take a hit is the quality of the flour and the density of the dough. Then it's machine mixed, frozen, and baked in the very same condition at all time in electric ovens and that makes for a pretty forgettable taste and texture. The end result is nowhere near what a competent baker can do, working manually and especially when using for instance a wood fire oven
    - eru 7y ago
      > On a mass scale, every cent counts and the first thing to take a hit is the quality of the flour and the density of the dough. Yes, but a better product can be sold for more. That's why they are making something resembling baguettes in the first place, and not just the cheapest loaf possible. (Not saying that in practice the factory baguettes are better than what your favourite baker does. Far from it.)
      - 7y ago

by sjf 7y ago

brians 7y ago

What makes you think they have only those five ingredients? I’d bet on more gluten, malt, potato starch, a couple exotic salts, and more.

BigBubbleButt 7y ago
https://www.innit.com/nutrition/cuisine-de-france-demi-baguette-french-bread/p/00667121001547 https://www.innit.com/nutrition/cuisine-de-france-demi-bague... It uses enriched flour (which I doubt makes much difference), but also adds conditioner which really is the culprit of being engineered for mass production.
roel_v 7y ago
There is nothing wrong with most additives. Even so-called 'artisanal' bakers add 'bread improvers', which contain things like 'ascorbic acid' (ooohh scary! except that its common name is... vitamin C), enzymes or some fast sugars that are entirely converted to alcohol and CO2 by the yeast (i.e. they're just used as yeast feed, no extra sweetness to the final product). My mother used to work with a woman who later opened a bakery with her husband and they were well known in the surrounding area for their great bread and bread rolls (this was in Belgium - similar style of bread as in France, baguettes not quite as good but often very close; just saying this wasn't some American sogginess). When I got into making bread at home, I asked him about his special trick to make great bread. The first one was 'experience', i.e. practicing the procedure dozens of times until its perfectly repeatable. And the second was 'a pinch out of my special jar' which he bought from a generic wholesale baking supplies vendor, and which contained the things I mentioned above. I always add a crushed vitamin C tablet to bread I make; it really helps with the gluten development and the quality of the rise. But most online bread making communities are full of idiots who recoil in horror at such sacrilege - they're all like "if I wanted bread full of chemical additives, I'd buy it in the store" rollseyes. But if you suggest they add a squeeze of lemon juice they they're all cool with it, they just complain about they don't want the slight lemon taste to their bread. Sigh. Don't get me started on nitrate as a preservative in sausage making and the idiocy 'biological sausage makers' spew about that...
- NikolaeVarius 7y ago
  Start renaming things MSG = Kombu Salt Nitrates = Celery Juice (though this is already done) HFCS = Artisnal Corn Sugar
- perl4ever 7y ago
  "some American sogginess" The equation of American bread with Wonder Bread is really tired and offensive. Maybe you should spin some tale about how American flour is so, so, different that making bread with flour, salt, yeast and water is so different than in Europe and it comes out completely inedible to those of refined palate.
  - roel_v 7y ago
    Eh, I don't think using "American bread" as an expression for bad bread is all that horrible, just like "being on Italian time" (or Brazilian or whatever) or for people who are habitually late or "going Dutch" for splitting a bill is all that bad - even when I do know Italians and Brazilians who are always on time, and Dutch people who will pay for their table. Then again, it's 2020, so I guess I should change colloquialisms like this.
    - wideasleep1 7y ago
      In defense of America, our San Francisco Sourdough is only soggy when used to sop up the chowder.
  - asveikau 7y ago
    My complaint about bread here in the states (I am American) is not that it's soggy so much as Americans have very high tolerance for stale bread, which means stores will often leave stale bread to fill the shelves completely, and I guess less "artisanal" brands will make their bread much less appealing when fresh because the market tolerates bland, hard textured, flavorless goods. This varies a lot with the store and in what town you buy the bread. I didn't have this complaint as much in the Northeast as I did out west. But out west, you can find the good stuff if you are more selective and pay more.

Kuinox 7y ago

I didn't saw yet a single industrial baguette that was better than what my local baker does. Industrial one may be crispy but have nothing like a good one.

throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
They’re pretty good though. And also cheaper. The same argument could be made of chips.
perl4ever 7y ago
You can take any random supermarket bread and say it happens to not be as good as your standard, but the process that makes it mass market, making the dough and freezing it in the factory, and baking it in a store, I don't believe has to meaningfully compromise the quality. I don't know how it would be better, but I don't think it has to be worse.
- bigbaguette 7y ago
  The manufacturing process makes them worse. On a mass scale, every cent counts and the first thing to take a hit is the quality of the flour and the density of the dough. Then it's machine mixed, frozen, and baked in the very same condition at all time in electric ovens and that makes for a pretty forgettable taste and texture. The end result is nowhere near what a competent baker can do, working manually and especially when using for instance a wood fire oven
  - eru 7y ago
    > On a mass scale, every cent counts and the first thing to take a hit is the quality of the flour and the density of the dough. Yes, but a better product can be sold for more. That's why they are making something resembling baguettes in the first place, and not just the cheapest loaf possible. (Not saying that in practice the factory baguettes are better than what your favourite baker does. Far from it.)
    - 7y ago