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I don't agree. I think that the bilingualism is a strength. After all, the strongest Open Source markets in the world today are international. If Montreal can r

I don't agree. I think that the bilingualism is a strength. After all, the strongest Open Source markets in the world today are international. If Montreal can represent a bridge between North America and Europe, there's an opportunity for synergy there.

nkassis 16y ago
For localization purposes, people in Montreal are experienced with issues that are required to translate software properly. They deal with this stuff all the time for local businesses.
- piranha 16y ago
  Oh well, this happens everywhere in non-english-speaking countries.
  - arach 16y ago
    When your default market is multilingual, you don't just translate your software, you deal with supporting more than one language from the start. I don't know how many markets are bilingual by default. I'm not saying that internationalization is the hardest problem to grasp, but there is a difference between building a single language system versus a multilingual system. [edit] re: > non-english-speaking countries When your non-english-speaking country also speaks english, you're happier.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
How will Montreal represent a bridge to anyplace besides France? While France isn't nothing (60 million people with a bit less disposable income than the US), USA+Canada+France is less than 20% bigger than USA+Canada.
- imack 16y ago
  Adding to your point, it is very important to note that France French != Quebec French. When a Montrealer goes to Paris and starts speaking French, the Parisian will get confused and respond in English if they know it.
  - arach 16y ago
    I think you're exaggerating. Parisians may tease Quebecers, but that's just to keep themselves in teasing shape. Teasing is a sport, you gotta practice. Most French people will be able to understand most Montrealers. It should be noted that France itself has many regional accents that are quite strong. Also to be noted, there is a steady flow of young French people immigrating to Montreal.
    - danudey 16y ago
      Most French people will be able to understand most Montrealers sometimes, in the same way that someone from Britain would be able to understand a Cajun sometimes. The language is very divergent, with franglais words sprinkled here or there, shortened words, differing word usage, etc. On top of that, for the reasons above as well as others (including their accent), people from France really dislike listening to people from Montreal speak 'French', and will avoid it whenever possible. This is similar to the way Francophones from Montreal will speak English rather than French to an Acadian, because their accent is really just that bad.
      - arach 16y ago
        I don't know enough about the Cajun English language to comment on your analogy. For what it's worth, here is wikipedia's article on Quebec French [citation needed] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French#Mutual_intelligibility_with_other_varieties_of_French http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French#Mutual_intelligib... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French#Overview_of_the_relation_to_European_French http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French#Overview_of_the_r...
      - ramchip 16y ago
        You seem to be living in Canada, but perhaps somewhere else? Our views are pretty different. I'm a francophone, born in Quebec. I have never seen a francophone (from anywhere in the world) speak in English to another because the accent was too strong. Most francophones in Montreal actually speak pretty bad English, at least once you leave the technical spheres, and any Quebecois can speak something closer to "international French" when he knows an European is listening. A large portion of my classmates at university were French people. They had no trouble understanding the local accent. They might be puzzled by some special expressions we have for snow, for "take a chair", for shortened forms ("je ne le sais pas"->"jelsépa"), swear words, etc. but nothing that can't be explained fairly quickly. The difference between French from France and from Quebec is important but I'd say comparing it to Cajun is exaggeration. It is not my impression that French people dislike Montreal French, but rather that they find it amusing at first (it sounds like a rural accent) and eventually just get used to it. Many Quebecois humorists and singers are popular in France as well. Franglais is a large debate, but in short, the French are as guilty of it, if not more than the Quebecois. Many words like "email" or "shopping" tend to be said in English in France but in French in Quebec ("courriel", "magasinage").
- delano 16y ago
  It's not limited to language. It's also very much about culture. Montreal is literally and figuratively half-way between North America and Europe.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Montreal is literally and figuratively half-way between North America and Europe. Either I'm really bad at geography, or it's only figuratively and not literally.
    - delano 16y ago
      It's a literal statement for people on the west coast. It becomes figurative as you go east.
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  Montreal has a lot of other nationalities represented beyond the French. It's not unusual to find someone who speaks French, English, and their mother tongue. My wife, for example, speaks Italian, French, and English.
- neilk 16y ago
  In my experience, Montrealers develop for an international market by default. Everyone knows the domestic market will be too small to sustain whatever you're doing. And your initial business plan will have to involve two languages and probably two currencies and two legal regimes -- at minimum. So in some ways it's even more internationally-minded than a small EC country. I was very surprised when I started working in the US and encountered this concept of "internationalization". ;) I'm not saying it's a killer advantage, but it could be leveraged.
- olalonde 16y ago
  French is an official language in ~40 countries.

nkassis 16y ago

For localization purposes, people in Montreal are experienced with issues that are required to translate software properly. They deal with this stuff all the time for local businesses.

piranha 16y ago
Oh well, this happens everywhere in non-english-speaking countries.
- arach 16y ago
  When your default market is multilingual, you don't just translate your software, you deal with supporting more than one language from the start. I don't know how many markets are bilingual by default. I'm not saying that internationalization is the hardest problem to grasp, but there is a difference between building a single language system versus a multilingual system. [edit] re: > non-english-speaking countries When your non-english-speaking country also speaks english, you're happier.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

How will Montreal represent a bridge to anyplace besides France? While France isn't nothing (60 million people with a bit less disposable income than the US), USA+Canada+France is less than 20% bigger than USA+Canada.

imack 16y ago
Adding to your point, it is very important to note that France French != Quebec French. When a Montrealer goes to Paris and starts speaking French, the Parisian will get confused and respond in English if they know it.
- arach 16y ago
  I think you're exaggerating. Parisians may tease Quebecers, but that's just to keep themselves in teasing shape. Teasing is a sport, you gotta practice. Most French people will be able to understand most Montrealers. It should be noted that France itself has many regional accents that are quite strong. Also to be noted, there is a steady flow of young French people immigrating to Montreal.
  - danudey 16y ago
    Most French people will be able to understand most Montrealers sometimes, in the same way that someone from Britain would be able to understand a Cajun sometimes. The language is very divergent, with franglais words sprinkled here or there, shortened words, differing word usage, etc. On top of that, for the reasons above as well as others (including their accent), people from France really dislike listening to people from Montreal speak 'French', and will avoid it whenever possible. This is similar to the way Francophones from Montreal will speak English rather than French to an Acadian, because their accent is really just that bad.
    - arach 16y ago
      I don't know enough about the Cajun English language to comment on your analogy. For what it's worth, here is wikipedia's article on Quebec French [citation needed] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French#Mutual_intelligibility_with_other_varieties_of_French http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French#Mutual_intelligib... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French#Overview_of_the_relation_to_European_French http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French#Overview_of_the_r...
    - ramchip 16y ago
      You seem to be living in Canada, but perhaps somewhere else? Our views are pretty different. I'm a francophone, born in Quebec. I have never seen a francophone (from anywhere in the world) speak in English to another because the accent was too strong. Most francophones in Montreal actually speak pretty bad English, at least once you leave the technical spheres, and any Quebecois can speak something closer to "international French" when he knows an European is listening. A large portion of my classmates at university were French people. They had no trouble understanding the local accent. They might be puzzled by some special expressions we have for snow, for "take a chair", for shortened forms ("je ne le sais pas"->"jelsépa"), swear words, etc. but nothing that can't be explained fairly quickly. The difference between French from France and from Quebec is important but I'd say comparing it to Cajun is exaggeration. It is not my impression that French people dislike Montreal French, but rather that they find it amusing at first (it sounds like a rural accent) and eventually just get used to it. Many Quebecois humorists and singers are popular in France as well. Franglais is a large debate, but in short, the French are as guilty of it, if not more than the Quebecois. Many words like "email" or "shopping" tend to be said in English in France but in French in Quebec ("courriel", "magasinage").
delano 16y ago
It's not limited to language. It's also very much about culture. Montreal is literally and figuratively half-way between North America and Europe.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Montreal is literally and figuratively half-way between North America and Europe. Either I'm really bad at geography, or it's only figuratively and not literally.
  - delano 16y ago
    It's a literal statement for people on the west coast. It becomes figurative as you go east.
jasonlotito 16y ago
Montreal has a lot of other nationalities represented beyond the French. It's not unusual to find someone who speaks French, English, and their mother tongue. My wife, for example, speaks Italian, French, and English.
neilk 16y ago
In my experience, Montrealers develop for an international market by default. Everyone knows the domestic market will be too small to sustain whatever you're doing. And your initial business plan will have to involve two languages and probably two currencies and two legal regimes -- at minimum. So in some ways it's even more internationally-minded than a small EC country. I was very surprised when I started working in the US and encountered this concept of "internationalization". ;) I'm not saying it's a killer advantage, but it could be leveraged.
olalonde 16y ago
French is an official language in ~40 countries.