3 ms·

This is dumb as why even bother with yellow.

by robk 7y ago

Swizec 7y ago
To give cars within stopping distance time to stop, but discourage them from accelerating to beat the red.
- clarry 7y ago
  No, seriously, how does that differ from red? If you're in stopping distance and the light changes to STOP, then you STOP, no matter whether stop is encoded as red or yellow or both. So you don't need yellow for that, you can just give them red. They will stop. If you're not in stopping distance and you get a sudden STOP sign, whether that's red or yellow, well you're kinda fucked because you're going to end up in the intersection anyway. I don't see any rationale for having yellow with these rules (except to indicate that the light is about to turn from red to green).
  - Swizec 7y ago
    The issue is that you’re in stopping distance and light changes to “Soon STOP”, so many people accelerate to make it through before the light says “STOP” If yellow means “STOP but grace period if you cant” it removes the incentive to accelerate
    - kazinator 7y ago
      The fact is that you must not run enter the intersection on a red light. If a green changed to red abruptly, it would be impossible not to do that. The purpose of yellow, with a decent interval, is to make it possible to stop on a red, provided a vehicle is in good condition and not egregiously speeding, and the driver is sober and alert Word semantic games about how that is expressed in the language of the traffic code do not change how it works. "STOP but grace if you can't" wording makes it appear as if under some circumstances, it is a violation to enter the intersection on yellow. It creates incentive for police to bust people who go through yellow lights, on the premise that the judgment of what is an acceptable way to proceed through a yellow light is some objective standard that can be accurately policed. I got a yellow light ticket by a cop who went through the same light, some 15-20 meters behind me! I remember thinking, "I was totally okay, but that driver behind me was pretty late; was it still even yellow?" Then that car put on police flashers. I took it to court and prepared the defense that, if a vehicle A has time to stop on the yellow, then any vehicle B that is behind it must have even more time to stop. If the driver of B judges that he has no time to stop and proceeds, but claims that A ahead of him had plenty of time to stop, that is an inconsistent, double standard. (Actually, that was my back-up argument; my main argument was that I didn't want to be rear-ended by the car behind me, which clearly intended to proceed. And I would call as the witness the driver of that car who happened to be fortuitously present in the courtroom.) I never got to present my argument, because that officer testified as having no evidence, so the case was dropped. Anyway, sure, people will only change their behavior, but only due to being worried for being ticketed for going through a yellow in a manner that some officer doesn't like. Here is a thought: if you are certain you do not have time to stop, and you're below the legal speed limit, why shouldn't you accelerate, if you feel like it? Say I'm doing 35 km/h in a 50 km/h zone (maybe I just left a parking spot, or turned a corner), and I'm 1 meter from the intersection which is green. It turns yellow. Why wouldn't I accelerate, or continue accelerating? Accelerating, by itself, doesn't prove that you had time to stop.
  - a1369209993 7y ago
    Well, the "why not just" approach would be: - Traffic violation if you enter the intersection when the light is RED. - Traffic violation if your speed increases at all when the light is YELLOW. - Yellow light must last at least Ty = A * L + T where: L is the posted speed limit, A is a accelleration that lawmaker must be exposed to 100 1-5sec intervals of annually before renewing the law establishing values for A and T for that year, and T is a reaction time that lawmakers must consistently (ie 100/100 tests) be able to meet (also annually).
- loco5niner 7y ago
  > You can only run a yellow if you’re already in the intersection when the light turns. The problem is your previous statement implies that if you are going 45mph and the light turns yellow when you are 5 ft away from entering the intersection, you are required to stop. The physics doesn't work.

This is dumb as why even bother with yellow.

by robk 7y ago

This is dumb as why even bother with yellow.

Swizec 7y ago

To give cars within stopping distance time to stop, but discourage them from accelerating to beat the red.

clarry 7y ago
No, seriously, how does that differ from red? If you're in stopping distance and the light changes to STOP, then you STOP, no matter whether stop is encoded as red or yellow or both. So you don't need yellow for that, you can just give them red. They will stop. If you're not in stopping distance and you get a sudden STOP sign, whether that's red or yellow, well you're kinda fucked because you're going to end up in the intersection anyway. I don't see any rationale for having yellow with these rules (except to indicate that the light is about to turn from red to green).
- Swizec 7y ago
  The issue is that you’re in stopping distance and light changes to “Soon STOP”, so many people accelerate to make it through before the light says “STOP” If yellow means “STOP but grace period if you cant” it removes the incentive to accelerate
  - kazinator 7y ago
    The fact is that you must not run enter the intersection on a red light. If a green changed to red abruptly, it would be impossible not to do that. The purpose of yellow, with a decent interval, is to make it possible to stop on a red, provided a vehicle is in good condition and not egregiously speeding, and the driver is sober and alert Word semantic games about how that is expressed in the language of the traffic code do not change how it works. "STOP but grace if you can't" wording makes it appear as if under some circumstances, it is a violation to enter the intersection on yellow. It creates incentive for police to bust people who go through yellow lights, on the premise that the judgment of what is an acceptable way to proceed through a yellow light is some objective standard that can be accurately policed. I got a yellow light ticket by a cop who went through the same light, some 15-20 meters behind me! I remember thinking, "I was totally okay, but that driver behind me was pretty late; was it still even yellow?" Then that car put on police flashers. I took it to court and prepared the defense that, if a vehicle A has time to stop on the yellow, then any vehicle B that is behind it must have even more time to stop. If the driver of B judges that he has no time to stop and proceeds, but claims that A ahead of him had plenty of time to stop, that is an inconsistent, double standard. (Actually, that was my back-up argument; my main argument was that I didn't want to be rear-ended by the car behind me, which clearly intended to proceed. And I would call as the witness the driver of that car who happened to be fortuitously present in the courtroom.) I never got to present my argument, because that officer testified as having no evidence, so the case was dropped. Anyway, sure, people will only change their behavior, but only due to being worried for being ticketed for going through a yellow in a manner that some officer doesn't like. Here is a thought: if you are certain you do not have time to stop, and you're below the legal speed limit, why shouldn't you accelerate, if you feel like it? Say I'm doing 35 km/h in a 50 km/h zone (maybe I just left a parking spot, or turned a corner), and I'm 1 meter from the intersection which is green. It turns yellow. Why wouldn't I accelerate, or continue accelerating? Accelerating, by itself, doesn't prove that you had time to stop.
- a1369209993 7y ago
  Well, the "why not just" approach would be: - Traffic violation if you enter the intersection when the light is RED. - Traffic violation if your speed increases at all when the light is YELLOW. - Yellow light must last at least Ty = A * L + T where: L is the posted speed limit, A is a accelleration that lawmaker must be exposed to 100 1-5sec intervals of annually before renewing the law establishing values for A and T for that year, and T is a reaction time that lawmakers must consistently (ie 100/100 tests) be able to meet (also annually).
loco5niner 7y ago
> You can only run a yellow if you’re already in the intersection when the light turns. The problem is your previous statement implies that if you are going 45mph and the light turns yellow when you are 5 ft away from entering the intersection, you are required to stop. The physics doesn't work.