5 ms·

I really don't understand Apple's moves here. They have a terrific platform, and much of the value of their platform comes from third-party apps. If app devs

I really don't understand Apple's moves here. They have a terrific platform, and much of the value of their platform comes from third-party apps. If app devs start leaving for WebOS or Android in droves, much of their traction is going to be lost. I think if they would have gone for 10% or 15% they wouldn't have gotten this kind of response. I predict either reversals or abandonment of their platform. I still maintain that HP or RIM have a great opportunity here to announce that they are going to build app stores that are low fee for subscription apps. I think you'd definitely see a move there from numerous devs. And I too worry that my beloved Instapaper may be going to face trouble soon as well.

thailandstartup 16y ago
Apple feels its position is now strong enough that it can dictate terms.
- tomjen3 16y ago
  Considering that almost nothing happened when the iphone was released on Verizon, Apple is at an extremely weak position and can not only not dictate terms but they are very far from being at a point where they can.
  - marshray 16y ago
    Perhaps it really does reflect Jobs' weakness, or maybe he's behind it all too. Man if it were my business I sure wouldn't want to risk pissing off developers or the consumers right now: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/how-will-smartphone-market-share-figures-be-impacted-by-launch-of-verizon-iphone/44349 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/how-will-smartphone-market-sha...
- kenjackson 16y ago
  Funny how everyone used to say that Apple was benevolent due to their actions in the PC space. My argument was always they've never been in a position to really be aggressive. Now that they are in a borderline position they are quickly being a lot less benevolent. Does anyone honestly think if they had 90% PC/browser share they'd be "nicer" than Microsoft?
  - marshray 16y ago
    Apple is the company that has their police raid journalist's homes and confiscate all his computers because their dumbass engineer left his special phone in a bar. Say what you want about Microsoft, they never stooped to the level of _actual_ fascist Nazi crap like that.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
      - marshray 16y ago
        Apparently the local police do their bidding. Perhaps you heard about: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20003446-37.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20003446-37.html Widely denounced as unjust.
    - foljs 16y ago
      <b>Apple is the company that has their police raid journalist's homes and confiscate all his computers because their dumbass engineer left his special phone in a bar.</b> So, a) if you were working on a prototype product, b) and a dumb ass engineer of your company left it at a bar, where c) a guy illegally took it (and even more possibly outright STOLE IT) and illegally sold the stolen prototype to a journalist d) the journalist published an article revealing all the details of the new product (and making boat loads of cache in the process) you would NOT have reported this to the police?!!! (Oh, and the police takes orders from Apple now, not the D.A.? You are sure that the police wouldn't have raided the home of any journalist buying stolen prototypes worth millions of dollars if it was for any random company?)
siglesias 16y ago
It's because in-app subscriptions are really just recurring in-app purchases that can be cancelled at any time. If you accept that the 70-30 split is acceptable for sales of apps, by logical extension you must accept that the 70-30 split is acceptable for in-app purchases, because technically one could provide a free app with an in-app purchase to make it a full app, and anything less than 30% on Apple's take would gravitate the market toward this model. If you accept that 70-30 is fair for in-app purchases, then you must by logical extension accept that recurring in-app purchases that can be cancelled at any time would also have this split, because technically one could provide all in-app purchases at a steep discount simply as "subscriptions" that can be cancelled after the first payment. As far as I can tell, this is Apple's reasoning and rather inescapable at that.
- russnewcomer 16y ago
  I don't think that's a logical extension, personally. However, I think Apple could say that a subscription purchase was 85-15 or 90-10 and they would have gotten this in with little push back. Or even required that subscription apps cost $9.99 for the initial purchase ($9.99 is a number from my head with no basis in reality) and a following 90-10 split, or requiring that apps with a free initial release go to a 70-30 split on subscriptions. I really think they could have done that and not had a major revolt on their hands. They may not have made the same in the short term, but I think they would have had a better response and a better long-term hold on small developer and publisher loyalty to their platform. I would personally buy a Palm Pre 3 if it had Instapaper and Kindle and the iPhone 5 didn't. I would venture that their are numerous other consumers who have similar preferences. [Edited for clarity]
  - siglesias 16y ago
    I don't think anybody would buy a Time magazine app for $9.99 (or whatever the offset amount) just for the option to purchase a cheaper subscription, let alone spend an extraordinary amount of time becoming informed about the various price differences.
  - macrael 16y ago
    Could you elaborate on why you don't think the parent comment has a point?

thailandstartup 16y ago

Apple feels its position is now strong enough that it can dictate terms.

tomjen3 16y ago
Considering that almost nothing happened when the iphone was released on Verizon, Apple is at an extremely weak position and can not only not dictate terms but they are very far from being at a point where they can.
- marshray 16y ago
  Perhaps it really does reflect Jobs' weakness, or maybe he's behind it all too. Man if it were my business I sure wouldn't want to risk pissing off developers or the consumers right now: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/how-will-smartphone-market-share-figures-be-impacted-by-launch-of-verizon-iphone/44349 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/how-will-smartphone-market-sha...
kenjackson 16y ago
Funny how everyone used to say that Apple was benevolent due to their actions in the PC space. My argument was always they've never been in a position to really be aggressive. Now that they are in a borderline position they are quickly being a lot less benevolent. Does anyone honestly think if they had 90% PC/browser share they'd be "nicer" than Microsoft?
- marshray 16y ago
  Apple is the company that has their police raid journalist's homes and confiscate all his computers because their dumbass engineer left his special phone in a bar. Say what you want about Microsoft, they never stooped to the level of _actual_ fascist Nazi crap like that.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
    - marshray 16y ago
      Apparently the local police do their bidding. Perhaps you heard about: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20003446-37.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20003446-37.html Widely denounced as unjust.
  - foljs 16y ago
    <b>Apple is the company that has their police raid journalist's homes and confiscate all his computers because their dumbass engineer left his special phone in a bar.</b> So, a) if you were working on a prototype product, b) and a dumb ass engineer of your company left it at a bar, where c) a guy illegally took it (and even more possibly outright STOLE IT) and illegally sold the stolen prototype to a journalist d) the journalist published an article revealing all the details of the new product (and making boat loads of cache in the process) you would NOT have reported this to the police?!!! (Oh, and the police takes orders from Apple now, not the D.A.? You are sure that the police wouldn't have raided the home of any journalist buying stolen prototypes worth millions of dollars if it was for any random company?)

siglesias 16y ago

It's because in-app subscriptions are really just recurring in-app purchases that can be cancelled at any time. If you accept that the 70-30 split is acceptable for sales of apps, by logical extension you must accept that the 70-30 split is acceptable for in-app purchases, because technically one could provide a free app with an in-app purchase to make it a full app, and anything less than 30% on Apple's take would gravitate the market toward this model. If you accept that 70-30 is fair for in-app purchases, then you must by logical extension accept that recurring in-app purchases that can be cancelled at any time would also have this split, because technically one could provide all in-app purchases at a steep discount simply as "subscriptions" that can be cancelled after the first payment. As far as I can tell, this is Apple's reasoning and rather inescapable at that.

russnewcomer 16y ago
I don't think that's a logical extension, personally. However, I think Apple could say that a subscription purchase was 85-15 or 90-10 and they would have gotten this in with little push back. Or even required that subscription apps cost $9.99 for the initial purchase ($9.99 is a number from my head with no basis in reality) and a following 90-10 split, or requiring that apps with a free initial release go to a 70-30 split on subscriptions. I really think they could have done that and not had a major revolt on their hands. They may not have made the same in the short term, but I think they would have had a better response and a better long-term hold on small developer and publisher loyalty to their platform. I would personally buy a Palm Pre 3 if it had Instapaper and Kindle and the iPhone 5 didn't. I would venture that their are numerous other consumers who have similar preferences. [Edited for clarity]
- siglesias 16y ago
  I don't think anybody would buy a Time magazine app for $9.99 (or whatever the offset amount) just for the option to purchase a cheaper subscription, let alone spend an extraordinary amount of time becoming informed about the various price differences.
- macrael 16y ago
  Could you elaborate on why you don't think the parent comment has a point?