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Getting to VP level at a "top startup" has little to do with data science, and everything to do with your ability to play the networking game. Depending on the

Getting to VP level at a "top startup" has little to do with data science, and everything to do with your ability to play the networking game. Depending on the size of the company, VP level jobs are more about management skills than technical proficiency.

pirate_dev 7y ago
This exactly. I can't begin to list off all the rich dumbasses who had all sorts of titles in startups because they went to the same school, knew the founders, etc. I've had such people have no idea what model they even use for large chunks of their pipeline. Obviously they hire the actual talent and these guys get the credit.
- allenskd 7y ago
  How is this different from any other company though? It happens a lot where I live. You either know the higher ups through some sort of connection(school, event, family, etc) became friends and that's it you landed on a nice position. I'd love to say it's only prone in startups but it's been plaguing companies forever, especially small-medium sized ones where it's easier because the owner is probably hoping to find able hands, perhaps the huge ones have slightly better processes to counter this type of scenario.
  - viklove 7y ago
    It's not different, all companies are like this. That doesn't make it any better though... Success is mostly based upon who you know and being at the right place at the right time. That's why it's disingenuous to suggest you can "teach" how to be successful with blog posts like this -- you can't teach someone how to be born into the right family so they can attend the right school and meet the right people.
dominotw 7y ago
> VP level jobs are more about management skills than technical proficiency. I would say this is true for all mid-management and up. Tech proficiency is largely irrelevant once you go into management.
- martingoodson 7y ago
  Strange comment. How could you be a good data science leader if you are not a good data scientist? Could you equally be a good CFO if you didn't have technical skills in finance?
  - aogl 7y ago
    Im afraid that while this seems logical, it's not how the real world actually is. I've known of many heads of departments with rather grand titles and only a very small percentage of them even know the slightest of what goes on below them or why. Heads of IT, software departments and even CIOs that cant even login. In fact, they often move to similar roles in other companies because the new companies believe they must be good to be in that seniority of the current company. When in fact the current company just can't wait for them to go. After a couple of these moves, they have a whole career of senior positions in immpressive companies. I can think of about 10 examples within ftse10 and fortune25 companies right now that I've had the "pleasure" to work with.
    - martingoodson 7y ago
      >When in fact the current company just can't wait for them to go. You seem to be agreeing with me then. Of course you can be a bad VP Data Scientist without knowing anything about data science!
  - marcinzm 7y ago
    >How could you be a good data science leader if you are not a good data scientist? The job of a Data Science leader at a growing company is 50% recruiting and 50% sitting in planning meetings. Even if you started with good IC knowledge after a few years your skills will be rusty as hell. So assuming you know nothing and trusting your team and delegating is going to work infinitely better than trusting your own out of date skills. edit: And yes, this is from personal knowledge, I've held such titles before and I've had a lot of offers for other such titles. edit2: As a corollary, promoting someone to management just because they're a good IC is a really bad idea. You want your top ICs to stay ICs if possible. You want your managers to be people who actually can manage and want to manage.
syndacks 7y ago
Why does this community (HN) have such a proclivity for these types of bitter responses? This comment makes wild assumptions, doesn't assume best intentions, and really just makes `brenden2` sound like a nasty person. Yet here it is, top comment on the front page. Nice work OP! You are flexing a very unique set of muscles (technical + leadership + communication + ambition) that very few people have. You will go far in life.
- peteradio 7y ago
  You seem to be reading a bitterness into the comment that is not there. Apart from that your comment is also very true. The op will go very far! Big picture, networking, and management are far more valued than someone with raw technical ability who misses the above.
  - brenden2 7y ago
    Indeed. If your goal is to become a VP at a successful startup, you're better off working on your networking/blogging/social/managerial skills than studying anything technical.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mlthoughts2018 7y ago
  Why do you perceive it as bitter rather than simply factual observations about employment? It is a whole discipline of social science research, eg “Moral Mazes.” My personal goal is for my beliefs and my participation in a community to above all be accurate. If the fact-based conclusions aren’t very pleasant, that is a function of the state of the world, not the state of participation.
  - gumby 7y ago
    Thank you for this comment.
- aerosmile 7y ago

pirate_dev 7y ago

This exactly. I can't begin to list off all the rich dumbasses who had all sorts of titles in startups because they went to the same school, knew the founders, etc. I've had such people have no idea what model they even use for large chunks of their pipeline. Obviously they hire the actual talent and these guys get the credit.

allenskd 7y ago
How is this different from any other company though? It happens a lot where I live. You either know the higher ups through some sort of connection(school, event, family, etc) became friends and that's it you landed on a nice position. I'd love to say it's only prone in startups but it's been plaguing companies forever, especially small-medium sized ones where it's easier because the owner is probably hoping to find able hands, perhaps the huge ones have slightly better processes to counter this type of scenario.
- viklove 7y ago
  It's not different, all companies are like this. That doesn't make it any better though... Success is mostly based upon who you know and being at the right place at the right time. That's why it's disingenuous to suggest you can "teach" how to be successful with blog posts like this -- you can't teach someone how to be born into the right family so they can attend the right school and meet the right people.

dominotw 7y ago

> VP level jobs are more about management skills than technical proficiency. I would say this is true for all mid-management and up. Tech proficiency is largely irrelevant once you go into management.

martingoodson 7y ago
Strange comment. How could you be a good data science leader if you are not a good data scientist? Could you equally be a good CFO if you didn't have technical skills in finance?
- aogl 7y ago
  Im afraid that while this seems logical, it's not how the real world actually is. I've known of many heads of departments with rather grand titles and only a very small percentage of them even know the slightest of what goes on below them or why. Heads of IT, software departments and even CIOs that cant even login. In fact, they often move to similar roles in other companies because the new companies believe they must be good to be in that seniority of the current company. When in fact the current company just can't wait for them to go. After a couple of these moves, they have a whole career of senior positions in immpressive companies. I can think of about 10 examples within ftse10 and fortune25 companies right now that I've had the "pleasure" to work with.
  - martingoodson 7y ago
    >When in fact the current company just can't wait for them to go. You seem to be agreeing with me then. Of course you can be a bad VP Data Scientist without knowing anything about data science!
- marcinzm 7y ago
  >How could you be a good data science leader if you are not a good data scientist? The job of a Data Science leader at a growing company is 50% recruiting and 50% sitting in planning meetings. Even if you started with good IC knowledge after a few years your skills will be rusty as hell. So assuming you know nothing and trusting your team and delegating is going to work infinitely better than trusting your own out of date skills. edit: And yes, this is from personal knowledge, I've held such titles before and I've had a lot of offers for other such titles. edit2: As a corollary, promoting someone to management just because they're a good IC is a really bad idea. You want your top ICs to stay ICs if possible. You want your managers to be people who actually can manage and want to manage.

syndacks 7y ago

Why does this community (HN) have such a proclivity for these types of bitter responses? This comment makes wild assumptions, doesn't assume best intentions, and really just makes `brenden2` sound like a nasty person. Yet here it is, top comment on the front page. Nice work OP! You are flexing a very unique set of muscles (technical + leadership + communication + ambition) that very few people have. You will go far in life.

peteradio 7y ago
You seem to be reading a bitterness into the comment that is not there. Apart from that your comment is also very true. The op will go very far! Big picture, networking, and management are far more valued than someone with raw technical ability who misses the above.
- brenden2 7y ago
  Indeed. If your goal is to become a VP at a successful startup, you're better off working on your networking/blogging/social/managerial skills than studying anything technical.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mlthoughts2018 7y ago
Why do you perceive it as bitter rather than simply factual observations about employment? It is a whole discipline of social science research, eg “Moral Mazes.” My personal goal is for my beliefs and my participation in a community to above all be accurate. If the fact-based conclusions aren’t very pleasant, that is a function of the state of the world, not the state of participation.
- gumby 7y ago
  Thank you for this comment.
aerosmile 7y ago