5 ms·

> rent controls almost never work So what's the average rent in Berlin for comparison? Edit: From here I'm getting 50% lower rents. https://www.numbeo.com/co

> rent controls almost never work So what's the average rent in Berlin for comparison? Edit: From here I'm getting 50% lower rents. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=Germany&city1=London&city2=Berlin&tracking=getDispatchComparison https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

polote 7y ago
Works also in Paris, where rent is not so expensive
- jpxw 7y ago
  IIRC Paris has only instituted rent control since last summer. Rent-control might "work" short-term, but the long-run effects are very damaging
  - pnutjam 7y ago
    When you are on fire, you don't worry about what you're rolling on to put it out. Poor people are on fire, they need solutions now.
    - jpxw 7y ago
      Yeah, and this "solution" is like trying to put yourself out by dousing yourself in gasoline.
  - polote 7y ago
    It has been much more than a year that there is rent control in Paris
  - greatgib 7y ago
    I live in Paris also, and I don't know what you mean by 'damaging effects' in the long run? I don't see any bad effect so far except for the capital income of the landlord that is lower. Housing prices still increase, there are still a lot of rental offers, nothing bad happened so far.
    - username90 7y ago
      In Stockholm where they had rent control for decades it is basically impossible to get a rental contract at all (waiting time is several decades). The end result is that people are forced to buy to get a stable place to live.
DangerousPie 7y ago
The rent is low, sure, but good luck finding a flat to begin with: https://www.thelocal.de/20191125/nearly-1800-people-turn-up-for-flat-viewing-in-berlin https://www.thelocal.de/20191125/nearly-1800-people-turn-up-...
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  That's exactly the expected result of rent control!
  - leereeves 7y ago
    To benefit current renters who never want to move again, and no one else?
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      Yes. It increases demand while reducing supply and the expected result is exactly what is illustrated in the article posted above.
- ShorsHammer 7y ago
  There's absolutely no rent control in Sydney, Australia. A city with one of the lowest population/km^2. I can find you a bunch of articles showing the same thing with hundred queuing around the corner. Are you sure rental controls are the problem here? Given that London has no rental controls already and magically suffers from no one being able to build what would you propose as a solution here other than strawmen? I had no problem getting an apartment in Berlin, very much had trouble in Sydney. Have you tried any of the cities mentioned in this thread? Because I'm speaking from experience.
jpxw 7y ago
Rent control is in its infancy in Berlin. The long-run effects will begin to emerge at some point. Also a direct comparison with London is not useful. What matters is the relative change in rent in one place over time. Berlin's rent will increase. You can't outrun the hard reality of economics.
mytailorisrich 7y ago
Rent control only benefits current tenants who enjoy in effect subsidised rent. But it does not make easier to find a home, quite the opposite, because the effect is the opposite of what would really help: It increases demand while reducing supply whereas you'd want to increase supply and reduce demand... Overall, rent control is a knee-jerk political response, but it does not solve anything. In addition, the reality is that the most desirable cities/areas are going to be expensive, there is simply no way around that. If the legal restrictions diverge too much from what the market wants the result will simply be that the law is no longer respected.
- ShorsHammer 7y ago
  As other Londoners and observers have mentioned here, supply is already constrained regardless. Visiting friends there I'm always shocked at the quality/value of housing in London. In a city that refuses to increase supply the point seems quite moot about bringing in regulations which stifle supply. The regulators and local communities are already stifling it.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    Is there a point in stifling it yet further, though? Housing price is an economic issue and isn't going to be solved (as far as it can be solved) by economically illiterate policies.

polote 7y ago

Works also in Paris, where rent is not so expensive

jpxw 7y ago
IIRC Paris has only instituted rent control since last summer. Rent-control might "work" short-term, but the long-run effects are very damaging
- pnutjam 7y ago
  When you are on fire, you don't worry about what you're rolling on to put it out. Poor people are on fire, they need solutions now.
  - jpxw 7y ago
    Yeah, and this "solution" is like trying to put yourself out by dousing yourself in gasoline.
- polote 7y ago
  It has been much more than a year that there is rent control in Paris
- greatgib 7y ago
  I live in Paris also, and I don't know what you mean by 'damaging effects' in the long run? I don't see any bad effect so far except for the capital income of the landlord that is lower. Housing prices still increase, there are still a lot of rental offers, nothing bad happened so far.
  - username90 7y ago
    In Stockholm where they had rent control for decades it is basically impossible to get a rental contract at all (waiting time is several decades). The end result is that people are forced to buy to get a stable place to live.

DangerousPie 7y ago

The rent is low, sure, but good luck finding a flat to begin with: https://www.thelocal.de/20191125/nearly-1800-people-turn-up-for-flat-viewing-in-berlin https://www.thelocal.de/20191125/nearly-1800-people-turn-up-...

mytailorisrich 7y ago
That's exactly the expected result of rent control!
- leereeves 7y ago
  To benefit current renters who never want to move again, and no one else?
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    Yes. It increases demand while reducing supply and the expected result is exactly what is illustrated in the article posted above.
ShorsHammer 7y ago
There's absolutely no rent control in Sydney, Australia. A city with one of the lowest population/km^2. I can find you a bunch of articles showing the same thing with hundred queuing around the corner. Are you sure rental controls are the problem here? Given that London has no rental controls already and magically suffers from no one being able to build what would you propose as a solution here other than strawmen? I had no problem getting an apartment in Berlin, very much had trouble in Sydney. Have you tried any of the cities mentioned in this thread? Because I'm speaking from experience.

jpxw 7y ago

Rent control is in its infancy in Berlin. The long-run effects will begin to emerge at some point. Also a direct comparison with London is not useful. What matters is the relative change in rent in one place over time. Berlin's rent will increase. You can't outrun the hard reality of economics.

mytailorisrich 7y ago

Rent control only benefits current tenants who enjoy in effect subsidised rent. But it does not make easier to find a home, quite the opposite, because the effect is the opposite of what would really help: It increases demand while reducing supply whereas you'd want to increase supply and reduce demand... Overall, rent control is a knee-jerk political response, but it does not solve anything. In addition, the reality is that the most desirable cities/areas are going to be expensive, there is simply no way around that. If the legal restrictions diverge too much from what the market wants the result will simply be that the law is no longer respected.

ShorsHammer 7y ago
As other Londoners and observers have mentioned here, supply is already constrained regardless. Visiting friends there I'm always shocked at the quality/value of housing in London. In a city that refuses to increase supply the point seems quite moot about bringing in regulations which stifle supply. The regulators and local communities are already stifling it.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  Is there a point in stifling it yet further, though? Housing price is an economic issue and isn't going to be solved (as far as it can be solved) by economically illiterate policies.