I think somehow against all odds you were the only one to get the arguments, which is not for or against, any sides that shouldn't be. I'm more interested in t

I think somehow against all odds you were the only one to get the arguments, which is not for or against, any sides that shouldn't be. I'm more interested in the argument itself, than not stepping on toes. As you see yourself, the slightest negative can be slightly turned into boogeymen or elite anyway. So for free-thinking, bottom-up authority should be very interesting for modern forms of software development. People removed from dev and testing seem to forget or not know of the subtle intricacies involved, thus the best leaders are themselves involved in some of the gritty work, even just for temporary relief. What we see today is adding more and more layers of people who just are ignorant, playing political games and not contributing to end results. Then they wonder why the peons can't "scale" to their "Agile processes"! So for those interested in the arguments themselves, I'll leave it open (you can of course find contradictory examples as well). It's a bit funny though frustrating at times, because when you've been on "all" sides, you cease to see the little fences people put around themselves and their pet pens..