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This is why I have analytics on the JavaScript side and server side. I can calculate those who block my analytics and at the same time capture a lot of the rele

This is why I have analytics on the JavaScript side and server side. I can calculate those who block my analytics and at the same time capture a lot of the relevant information

saagarjha 7y ago
Subverting the desires of people who would like privacy is not a good look.
- peteretep 7y ago
  If you don’t want to give your information to a site, don’t use that site? That’s a very different proposition from not wanting to give your information to a third party.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    It’s not always clear that a site is logging things server-side.
    - throwaway373438 7y ago
      Yes it is; all sites log. Not everyone does smart things with the data.
  - Analemma_ 7y ago
    This argument works equally well in both directions: if you don’t want people to modify your site with client-side scripting, don’t serve it to them.
    - peteretep 7y ago
      Sure. I’m not seeing the link?
- lettergram 7y ago
  I mean, on the one hand I can see that view point — On the other hand, that’s a fairly entitled viewpoint. Users are using infrastructure I finance, to do things on the website(s) I created. If you want privacy from the services youre using, create or host your own. I keep the data secure and don’t give it to 3rd parties. That information is used to fix bugs, improve / build services, etc. I’m not “subverting” privacy, users are coming to my house and playing with my things, so to speak.
  - contravariant 7y ago
    Yeah, at some point we're going to have to address that (internet) communication is a two way street. Until then, your HTML is interpreted by my browser, any resources are going over my network (and only my network if they're 3rd party) and the JavaScript is running on my machine . So I'll be having them obey my rules.
    - zuppy 7y ago
      I’m not sure I understand your point. It’s you who requests those resources, nobody pushes that data towards you. Are we debating adblockers? Because that is a different topic than server side log analysis and I agree that we should be picky about what we process (but it’s a thin line, you are using resources from the owner of that service though).
      - danieldk 7y ago
        It’s you who requests those resources, That does not matter, at least in the EU where citizens are protected by the GDPR. Article 6 of the GDPR: Processing shall be lawful only if and to the extent that at least one of the following applies: (a) the data subject has given consent to the processing of his or her personal data for one or more specific purposes;
        system2 7y ago
        You are changing directions with your comment. "his or her personal data" Analytics is not personal. No one shares their names or social security number. And I strongly agree with people above mentioning The Visitor is the requester. We provide services, they use it, we want to understand what we are doing by checking analytics. Nothing immoral about this.
- elorant 7y ago
  You can have analytics and respect users' privacy. As long as your data are anonymized.
- ben509 7y ago
  "X is not a good look" should be left in the echo chambers of Twitter. It comes across as smug, because you assume you're an authority on what a "good look" is, that is, what the correct thinking is. But you're doing this while the reader is noting that you failed to express a real argument, so they're not sure you even know what the correct thinking is, let alone why it ought to be correct.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    > "X is not a good look" should be left in the echo chambers of Twitter. I'm not on Twitter… > It comes across as smug, because you assume you're an authority on what a "good look" is, that is, what the correct thinking is. But you're doing this while the reader is noting that you failed to express a real argument, so they're not sure you even know what the correct thinking is, let alone why it ought to be correct. I think it's fairly obvious what my argument it: people who are blocking client-side analytics have expressed a clear interest in not being tracked. Saying that you're tracking them anyways on your server shows that you don't really care about their wishes–and as other have mentioned, it might fall afoul of active consent legal requirements. Considering that my comment is currently at the top of this thread, I think it would be fairly difficult to not know what my argument is.
  - PavlovsCat 7y ago
    > you assume you're an authority on what a "good look" is They don't assume that, they know that. Everybody is the authority of their own moral judgmement. > But you're doing this while the reader is noting that you failed to express a real argument, They pointed out that what they're responding to is subverting the desires of people who would like privacy, that's the meat, "that is not a good look" is just a bonus statement, something that would be implied anyway even if left out.
- jrockway 7y ago
  Sending a User-Agent header unsolicited seems like user error, not bad intent on the part of the site owner. I do the opposite, my webserver sends back some information unsolicited about my production environment that you can track if you want.

This is why I have analytics on the JavaScript side and server side. I can calculate those who block my analytics and at the same time capture a lot of the relevant information

saagarjha 7y ago

Subverting the desires of people who would like privacy is not a good look.

peteretep 7y ago
If you don’t want to give your information to a site, don’t use that site? That’s a very different proposition from not wanting to give your information to a third party.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  It’s not always clear that a site is logging things server-side.
  - throwaway373438 7y ago
    Yes it is; all sites log. Not everyone does smart things with the data.
- Analemma_ 7y ago
  This argument works equally well in both directions: if you don’t want people to modify your site with client-side scripting, don’t serve it to them.
  - peteretep 7y ago
    Sure. I’m not seeing the link?
lettergram 7y ago
I mean, on the one hand I can see that view point — On the other hand, that’s a fairly entitled viewpoint. Users are using infrastructure I finance, to do things on the website(s) I created. If you want privacy from the services youre using, create or host your own. I keep the data secure and don’t give it to 3rd parties. That information is used to fix bugs, improve / build services, etc. I’m not “subverting” privacy, users are coming to my house and playing with my things, so to speak.
- contravariant 7y ago
  Yeah, at some point we're going to have to address that (internet) communication is a two way street. Until then, your HTML is interpreted by my browser, any resources are going over my network (and only my network if they're 3rd party) and the JavaScript is running on my machine . So I'll be having them obey my rules.
  - zuppy 7y ago
    I’m not sure I understand your point. It’s you who requests those resources, nobody pushes that data towards you. Are we debating adblockers? Because that is a different topic than server side log analysis and I agree that we should be picky about what we process (but it’s a thin line, you are using resources from the owner of that service though).
    - danieldk 7y ago
      It’s you who requests those resources, That does not matter, at least in the EU where citizens are protected by the GDPR. Article 6 of the GDPR: Processing shall be lawful only if and to the extent that at least one of the following applies: (a) the data subject has given consent to the processing of his or her personal data for one or more specific purposes;
      - system2 7y ago
        You are changing directions with your comment. "his or her personal data" Analytics is not personal. No one shares their names or social security number. And I strongly agree with people above mentioning The Visitor is the requester. We provide services, they use it, we want to understand what we are doing by checking analytics. Nothing immoral about this.
elorant 7y ago
You can have analytics and respect users' privacy. As long as your data are anonymized.
ben509 7y ago
"X is not a good look" should be left in the echo chambers of Twitter. It comes across as smug, because you assume you're an authority on what a "good look" is, that is, what the correct thinking is. But you're doing this while the reader is noting that you failed to express a real argument, so they're not sure you even know what the correct thinking is, let alone why it ought to be correct.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > "X is not a good look" should be left in the echo chambers of Twitter. I'm not on Twitter… > It comes across as smug, because you assume you're an authority on what a "good look" is, that is, what the correct thinking is. But you're doing this while the reader is noting that you failed to express a real argument, so they're not sure you even know what the correct thinking is, let alone why it ought to be correct. I think it's fairly obvious what my argument it: people who are blocking client-side analytics have expressed a clear interest in not being tracked. Saying that you're tracking them anyways on your server shows that you don't really care about their wishes–and as other have mentioned, it might fall afoul of active consent legal requirements. Considering that my comment is currently at the top of this thread, I think it would be fairly difficult to not know what my argument is.
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  > you assume you're an authority on what a "good look" is They don't assume that, they know that. Everybody is the authority of their own moral judgmement. > But you're doing this while the reader is noting that you failed to express a real argument, They pointed out that what they're responding to is subverting the desires of people who would like privacy, that's the meat, "that is not a good look" is just a bonus statement, something that would be implied anyway even if left out.
jrockway 7y ago
Sending a User-Agent header unsolicited seems like user error, not bad intent on the part of the site owner. I do the opposite, my webserver sends back some information unsolicited about my production environment that you can track if you want.