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Just because you don't want healthcare controlled by the federal government doesn't mean you're opposed to healthcare itself, and some of the countries with uni

by bitlax 7y ago

Just because you don't want healthcare controlled by the federal government doesn't mean you're opposed to healthcare itself, and some of the countries with universal healthcare have some of the highest infection and death rates so I'm not sure how your solution relates to COVID-19.

makomk 7y ago
Yeah. Italy has a universal healthcare system funded from taxes, and not only are they now a major cluster of coronavirus infection and spread, their healthcare system ended up helping to spread the virus. Supposedly their healthcare is some of the best in the world overall too.
- rm_-rf_slash 7y ago
  The difference is getting tested or treated in Italy won’t bankrupt you like it will in the US.
- jkingsbery 7y ago
  Also: China has (near) universal health care. (https://www.internations.org/go/moving-to-china/healthcare#how-does-the-healthcare-system-work-in-china https://www.internations.org/go/moving-to-china/healthcare#h..., https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168851015001864 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016885101...) With universal health insurance, you're at the mercy of the government. If the government chooses not to cover your issue, or if the government tells you "you're not sick so stop telling people you are," that's too bad. The same thing happens in private insurance, to be sure (minus the "if you say bad things about us we'll put you in jail" part), since people get denied. With government run health care, you have fewer alternatives though. You can't try some other doctor to see if that one will work financially (since it's the same entity footing the bill ultimately). There's no alternate system or provider to go to (you can't do much to get better health coverage for next time).
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- rasz 7y ago
  Yes, its amazing what difference actually testing people versus telling nurses to sent patients home makes.
rriepe 7y ago
What if the threat is the government? We're to give them all the guns and all the hospitals?
- fythug 7y ago
  Who said all the hospitals? In most of Europe universal healthcare coexists with private sector.
  - simonh 7y ago
    Indeed, I support universal health care and I am fortunate enough to be able to afford private medical insurance as well. I see no contradiction in this. My support of universal health care is part of my commitment to my civic duty, as I see it, and my private health insurance is an exercise of my individual freedom.
simonh 7y ago
My post is a direct response to the Gates Notes article and his appeal for a concerted, coordinated response to this epidemic and possible future ones. I’m making a broader point along similar lines. The spread of COVID-19 has barely started. Doctors and hospitals can’t physically go out into the population and stop people contracting the virus. Whether a traveller with the virus happens to have been to an area and had transmission contact with people has nothing to do with the quality of the local hospitals and health care workers. That’s just not their role, that primarily comes into play in dealing with the consequences.

by bitlax 7y ago

makomk 7y ago

Yeah. Italy has a universal healthcare system funded from taxes, and not only are they now a major cluster of coronavirus infection and spread, their healthcare system ended up helping to spread the virus. Supposedly their healthcare is some of the best in the world overall too.

rm_-rf_slash 7y ago
The difference is getting tested or treated in Italy won’t bankrupt you like it will in the US.
jkingsbery 7y ago
Also: China has (near) universal health care. (https://www.internations.org/go/moving-to-china/healthcare#how-does-the-healthcare-system-work-in-china https://www.internations.org/go/moving-to-china/healthcare#h..., https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168851015001864 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016885101...) With universal health insurance, you're at the mercy of the government. If the government chooses not to cover your issue, or if the government tells you "you're not sick so stop telling people you are," that's too bad. The same thing happens in private insurance, to be sure (minus the "if you say bad things about us we'll put you in jail" part), since people get denied. With government run health care, you have fewer alternatives though. You can't try some other doctor to see if that one will work financially (since it's the same entity footing the bill ultimately). There's no alternate system or provider to go to (you can't do much to get better health coverage for next time).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
rasz 7y ago
Yes, its amazing what difference actually testing people versus telling nurses to sent patients home makes.

rriepe 7y ago

What if the threat is the government? We're to give them all the guns and all the hospitals?

fythug 7y ago
Who said all the hospitals? In most of Europe universal healthcare coexists with private sector.
- simonh 7y ago
  Indeed, I support universal health care and I am fortunate enough to be able to afford private medical insurance as well. I see no contradiction in this. My support of universal health care is part of my commitment to my civic duty, as I see it, and my private health insurance is an exercise of my individual freedom.

simonh 7y ago

My post is a direct response to the Gates Notes article and his appeal for a concerted, coordinated response to this epidemic and possible future ones. I’m making a broader point along similar lines. The spread of COVID-19 has barely started. Doctors and hospitals can’t physically go out into the population and stop people contracting the virus. Whether a traveller with the virus happens to have been to an area and had transmission contact with people has nothing to do with the quality of the local hospitals and health care workers. That’s just not their role, that primarily comes into play in dealing with the consequences.