3 ms·

What about a separate tanker car? Seems like that would solve the range issue. What about biodisel or syngas made with renewable energy instead of hydrogen?

by wffurr 7y ago

What about a separate tanker car? Seems like that would solve the range issue. What about biodisel or syngas made with renewable energy instead of hydrogen? Still carbon neutral operations.

pintxo 7y ago
Would be a nice comeback: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_(rail) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_(rail)
adrianN 7y ago
Biodiesel has absolutely terrible efficiency and uses up valuable land. Outside of very niche applications where demand can be satisfied with food waste we shouldn't use it at all.
- wffurr 7y ago
  Hydrogen production is not especially efficieby either and uses fossil natural gas (some of which escapes during handling and is a potent greenhouse gas). I think what's needed is a systemic look at various liquid/gas fuel energy storage mechanisms for converting renewable energy for use in transport. Batteries and transmission lines seem to be the clear winners in current usage, everything else is niche for one reason or another. An analysis of the tradeoffs and direction for potential research plus funding for that research is what's needed. Not mindless boosterism (like the article) for one particular fuel.
  - adrianN 7y ago
    I believe the idea is to use renewable energy during surplus times for electrolysis.
  - adrianN 7y ago
    I believe the idea is to use renewable energy during surplus times for electrolysis, which actually makes sense, as opposed to using agricultural land for biodiesel.
brnt 7y ago
Carbon neutral is a fossil industry marketing gimmick. The climate does not care about provenance of CO2, it only cares about its presence. We need to de-carbonize, and hydrogen produce by renewables such as wind qualifies.
- zokier 7y ago
  Growing biomass removes co2 from atmosphere. Burning carbon from that biomass releases it back. Make the process efficient enough (with addition of external power) and you end up with no added co2 in atmosphere. That's not just a marketing gimmick. Of course it is debatable if it is an efficient approach for doing things, but the concept is sound
  - brnt 7y ago
    There is no net reduction of co2 emissions here, that's why its marketing. The fact that sequestration in plants happens first does not make it better for global warming if you then burn it right after. Encouraging plant growth on top of a decarbonized energy cycle, now that will make a difference.
    - wffurr 7y ago
      How is replacing fossil diesel with recycled atmospheric co2 not a net reduct of emissions?
- wffurr 7y ago
  I am not so sure that hydrogen is the best energy storage medium for using renewable energy for transport. The handling properties of biodiesel and synthetic gasoline likely outweigh and efficiency losses.
Yetanfou 7y ago
An advantage of fuel cells over biogas/biodiesel is that the former only produce water vapour while the latter, due to the fact that they use ambient air for combustion which contains 78% nitrogen also produce nitrogen oxides which in turn lead to smog, acidification, ozone and fine particle production.

by wffurr 7y ago

What about a separate tanker car? Seems like that would solve the range issue. What about biodisel or syngas made with renewable energy instead of hydrogen? Still carbon neutral operations.

pintxo 7y ago

Would be a nice comeback: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_(rail) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_(rail)

adrianN 7y ago

Biodiesel has absolutely terrible efficiency and uses up valuable land. Outside of very niche applications where demand can be satisfied with food waste we shouldn't use it at all.

wffurr 7y ago
Hydrogen production is not especially efficieby either and uses fossil natural gas (some of which escapes during handling and is a potent greenhouse gas). I think what's needed is a systemic look at various liquid/gas fuel energy storage mechanisms for converting renewable energy for use in transport. Batteries and transmission lines seem to be the clear winners in current usage, everything else is niche for one reason or another. An analysis of the tradeoffs and direction for potential research plus funding for that research is what's needed. Not mindless boosterism (like the article) for one particular fuel.
- adrianN 7y ago
  I believe the idea is to use renewable energy during surplus times for electrolysis.
- adrianN 7y ago
  I believe the idea is to use renewable energy during surplus times for electrolysis, which actually makes sense, as opposed to using agricultural land for biodiesel.

brnt 7y ago

Carbon neutral is a fossil industry marketing gimmick. The climate does not care about provenance of CO2, it only cares about its presence. We need to de-carbonize, and hydrogen produce by renewables such as wind qualifies.

zokier 7y ago
Growing biomass removes co2 from atmosphere. Burning carbon from that biomass releases it back. Make the process efficient enough (with addition of external power) and you end up with no added co2 in atmosphere. That's not just a marketing gimmick. Of course it is debatable if it is an efficient approach for doing things, but the concept is sound
- brnt 7y ago
  There is no net reduction of co2 emissions here, that's why its marketing. The fact that sequestration in plants happens first does not make it better for global warming if you then burn it right after. Encouraging plant growth on top of a decarbonized energy cycle, now that will make a difference.
  - wffurr 7y ago
    How is replacing fossil diesel with recycled atmospheric co2 not a net reduct of emissions?
wffurr 7y ago
I am not so sure that hydrogen is the best energy storage medium for using renewable energy for transport. The handling properties of biodiesel and synthetic gasoline likely outweigh and efficiency losses.

Yetanfou 7y ago

An advantage of fuel cells over biogas/biodiesel is that the former only produce water vapour while the latter, due to the fact that they use ambient air for combustion which contains 78% nitrogen also produce nitrogen oxides which in turn lead to smog, acidification, ozone and fine particle production.