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Sad, but I’ve seen this type of behavior before. It should really be built into the liability insurance covenants or companies will often not care. I was worki

Sad, but I’ve seen this type of behavior before. It should really be built into the liability insurance covenants or companies will often not care. I was working at a high rise in Manhattan on 9/11, as a fresh new analyst. After the horrific incidents of the day, we were told to continue working. That continued for about 90 minutes until the company announced an evacuation. Next we were told to carry all our binders (full of analyst reports) home, so a group of us Brooklyn residents did the 7mile trek with backpacks full of binders plus a 2001-era laptop, one of us had a roller bag because there were so many binders.

ci5er 7y ago
This is shocking because, ... why? Because you didn't have appropriate computer network-wide off-site data back-ups to the contents of your binders?
- xnyan 7y ago
  It’s shocking because even after terrorists murdered thousands of people by ramming a plane into a building ,corporate executives were asking people to stay at work in the surrounding buildings.
  - ryandrake 7y ago
    If they left work, the corporations might lose a little profit, and obviously that can’t be allowed. Won’t someone please consider the rich shareholders’ needs a little here?
  - ci5er 7y ago
    I was asking because of their 3rd paragraph, not their 2nd.
    - TuringNYC 7y ago
      Because when you are escaping/trekking across bridges and 10ish miles of road on foot in a suit and fancy shoes — you don’t really want to be encumbered carrying weight. Also remember this is 2001. We did not have VPN in our project office, though I know it existed. We had a modem dial in for remote access and none of our work was on network drives. HOme DSL/CableModem had only recently become popular amongst professionals. Regardless, I continue to remember the burden of carrying those gigantic binders as I ran across the 59th street bridge and through Queens and Brooklyn...all while wearing wingtip shoes. Awful.
      - ci5er 7y ago
        That sounds awful! On such an otherwise lovely morning, too. What do you think the correct response by management should have been? 15 minutes after the 1st plane hit, everyone shut down, go home, leave the files and binders?
        xnyan 7y ago
        Talking glibly about a situation in which thousands of people died is not a great way in general to get people to your side. No, when people’s lives are on the line and a building might be brought down due to an airplane crashing into you, you should not even think about binders or paperwork, much less making others think about binders.
        ci5er 7y ago
        I'm not here to get people "on my side". Or even to make a particular argument (which would require actually having a "side") I am here to understand the thinking of people who thought management should have "done better". It could well be that this is correct, but it was a very confusing morning, if you will recall, and nobody knew what the hell was going on. One stupid example is that my friends at Bear Stearns in WTC-7, left the building (evacuated) when the stock markets in NY shut down, and all lived. But the other friends on the bond-desk (traded out of Chicago, which didn't shut down), stayed and all died. (Hard to get a bond trader off his desk!). It was a horrible day. And also unprecedented. I think it is a little unfrair for people to expect managers to know how to react (immediately and pro-actively!) to an unprecedented event. If I had an argument, it would be that: If I were a manager on that day, I would have been confused. And so would you.
        ci5er 7y ago
        BTW: I do get your point (I think - it's hard to brain-meld, but I think I do), but I believe that I have made my point badly. Which is simply: Managers are made out of people. People are made out of monkeys. Monkeys don't know how to deal with anything they've not got exposed to. So they are left with analogy (and direct experience) and morals and values and frameworks for morals and values. And incentives. Gosh! That's a lot! If an airplane hits the world trade center, would I push the fat man in front of the train? (Sorry - moral philosophy question)... Ummmm. I don't know! Would you? WOuld I? How long would I brain freeze? Would I ask people to stay? Go home? Take books? The vault? I don't know! What would you do? My point here is simply this: You don't know what you were do, in real time, until you are in the hot-chair. You don't! Nobody does. And you will get it wrong. And anything you decide (anything!) will be criticized for decades. By people who were not there.
mnm1 7y ago
The hundreds or thousands of lives that could have been saved if evacuations began after the first tower was hit are hardly ever mentioned. No job is worth dying for, but apparently employers think their jobs are. I wonder what the death toll would have been if more people had common sense and started evacuating immediately.
- droithomme 7y ago
  The south tower had begun evacuation when "an official" announced over the building wide intercom that everything was fine and the people in the stairwell needed to turn around and go back to work. This story, told by survivors who ignored the command, was vehemently denied until the 911 commission reviewed an audio recording in which the message could be heard.
  - gowld 7y ago
    Source? This page has a massive amount of information about evacuation problems, including a false assertion made over the intercom that the building was safe, and that people needed to turn around because doors were locked, but nothing about "go back to work" except baseless speculation by a sibling of a victim. It doesn't even make sense, why would management of a building with dozens or hundreds of tenants care who is working? http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm

ci5er 7y ago

This is shocking because, ... why? Because you didn't have appropriate computer network-wide off-site data back-ups to the contents of your binders?

xnyan 7y ago
It’s shocking because even after terrorists murdered thousands of people by ramming a plane into a building ,corporate executives were asking people to stay at work in the surrounding buildings.
- ryandrake 7y ago
  If they left work, the corporations might lose a little profit, and obviously that can’t be allowed. Won’t someone please consider the rich shareholders’ needs a little here?
- ci5er 7y ago
  I was asking because of their 3rd paragraph, not their 2nd.
  - TuringNYC 7y ago
    Because when you are escaping/trekking across bridges and 10ish miles of road on foot in a suit and fancy shoes — you don’t really want to be encumbered carrying weight. Also remember this is 2001. We did not have VPN in our project office, though I know it existed. We had a modem dial in for remote access and none of our work was on network drives. HOme DSL/CableModem had only recently become popular amongst professionals. Regardless, I continue to remember the burden of carrying those gigantic binders as I ran across the 59th street bridge and through Queens and Brooklyn...all while wearing wingtip shoes. Awful.
    - ci5er 7y ago
      That sounds awful! On such an otherwise lovely morning, too. What do you think the correct response by management should have been? 15 minutes after the 1st plane hit, everyone shut down, go home, leave the files and binders?
      - xnyan 7y ago
        Talking glibly about a situation in which thousands of people died is not a great way in general to get people to your side. No, when people’s lives are on the line and a building might be brought down due to an airplane crashing into you, you should not even think about binders or paperwork, much less making others think about binders.
        ci5er 7y ago
        I'm not here to get people "on my side". Or even to make a particular argument (which would require actually having a "side") I am here to understand the thinking of people who thought management should have "done better". It could well be that this is correct, but it was a very confusing morning, if you will recall, and nobody knew what the hell was going on. One stupid example is that my friends at Bear Stearns in WTC-7, left the building (evacuated) when the stock markets in NY shut down, and all lived. But the other friends on the bond-desk (traded out of Chicago, which didn't shut down), stayed and all died. (Hard to get a bond trader off his desk!). It was a horrible day. And also unprecedented. I think it is a little unfrair for people to expect managers to know how to react (immediately and pro-actively!) to an unprecedented event. If I had an argument, it would be that: If I were a manager on that day, I would have been confused. And so would you.
        ci5er 7y ago
        BTW: I do get your point (I think - it's hard to brain-meld, but I think I do), but I believe that I have made my point badly. Which is simply: Managers are made out of people. People are made out of monkeys. Monkeys don't know how to deal with anything they've not got exposed to. So they are left with analogy (and direct experience) and morals and values and frameworks for morals and values. And incentives. Gosh! That's a lot! If an airplane hits the world trade center, would I push the fat man in front of the train? (Sorry - moral philosophy question)... Ummmm. I don't know! Would you? WOuld I? How long would I brain freeze? Would I ask people to stay? Go home? Take books? The vault? I don't know! What would you do? My point here is simply this: You don't know what you were do, in real time, until you are in the hot-chair. You don't! Nobody does. And you will get it wrong. And anything you decide (anything!) will be criticized for decades. By people who were not there.

mnm1 7y ago

The hundreds or thousands of lives that could have been saved if evacuations began after the first tower was hit are hardly ever mentioned. No job is worth dying for, but apparently employers think their jobs are. I wonder what the death toll would have been if more people had common sense and started evacuating immediately.

droithomme 7y ago
The south tower had begun evacuation when "an official" announced over the building wide intercom that everything was fine and the people in the stairwell needed to turn around and go back to work. This story, told by survivors who ignored the command, was vehemently denied until the 911 commission reviewed an audio recording in which the message could be heard.
- gowld 7y ago
  Source? This page has a massive amount of information about evacuation problems, including a false assertion made over the intercom that the building was safe, and that people needed to turn around because doors were locked, but nothing about "go back to work" except baseless speculation by a sibling of a victim. It doesn't even make sense, why would management of a building with dozens or hundreds of tenants care who is working? http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm