4 ms·

As a freelancer I dont want a startups "company". Yes, a fridge full of kombucha is not really interesting. Nor is a bunch of people bragging about spending VC

As a freelancer I dont want a startups "company". Yes, a fridge full of kombucha is not really interesting. Nor is a bunch of people bragging about spending VC money for no reason or working on useless garbage pseudo-product. And Im not lonely. So, why dont we kick it old school, and you just pay me money. As you have done for the last 20 years and will continue to do until Im bored of you.

Noughmad 7y ago
> So, why don't we kick it old school, and you just pay me money. That's the whole point of all these extra "benefits": so that they can pay you less money.
- CGamesPlay 7y ago
  If the FAANG companies set any precedent, this isn’t really true.
  - im3w1l 7y ago
    They would have to pay even more money without the benefits. Maybe.
  - Noughmad 7y ago
    Partially, but for those there's another catch. They have the campuses with game rooms, food, daycare, etc. all in order for you to spend as much time there as possible. They are literally building company towns.
    - disiplus 7y ago
      plus to switch market norms to social norms. they want you to feel like a family, not only because it benefits you, but because it benefits them. you would probably be willing to move furniture to your neighbor but would not do it if he offered you 10usd. they know that we are more productive if we feel like a family and if our opinion maters. this is nothing i came up, it's something that the division inside google came up with when tasked to learn what increases productivity in teams and why are some teams more productive then others. there is a book on the subject that i cannot remember now.
    - coldpie 7y ago
      I visited a major company once, a relatively large company you've all heard of. Went to the bathroom and oh, that's neat, they have toothbrushes and shaving kits and stuff for employees. A couple minutes later it clicked: oh they have those there for when you spend all-nighters. Oh no no no. I'll stick to my small company 9-5 gig, thanks.
      - noirbot 7y ago
        I can't speak to that company's motivations, but my current position has similar amenities (showers with soap, basic toiletries in the bathroom, food/drinks readily available) and I don't think anyone here's been pulling any all-nighters. They're mostly used by folks who bike in to work in the morning and need to clean up, or get something stuck in their teeth after lunch. It could all be some malicious plot for when the 24-hour work days hit in a few months, or it could just be a nice and relatively cheap benefit that helps people out? I know there's plenty of times I realize I have to present at a meeting and I'd feel much better if I could make sure I was well-groomed before it. It's not hard to make almost any action a company makes into evidence of brutal malice, but that doesn't mean it's always true.
    - opportune 7y ago
      This is also really overplayed. I know many people who work at big tech companies and I've spent some time at a megacorp or two in my day. The on-campus amenities may keep you at work longer (willingly!) but seem pretty orthogonal to how much time people really spend working. Low-amenity Amazon has long hours, High-amenity Google has pretty normal/reasonable hours, high-amenity Facebook has high-ish hours, low-amenity Microsoft has normal/reasonable hours.
      - noirbot 7y ago
        Yea, I just see it as an added benefit that may or may not have value to me. My current job has a happy-hour on Fridays with beer/snacks, but I'm usually not around late enough in the day to attend. That said, once a month or so, it's a free meal and a couple drinks, so it's an extra $10-20 a month I get to save. Things like free food are gimmicky, but it's also a non-trivial financial and time benefit to not have to prep a fresh meal a few days a week. I'd take a small salary cut to work somewhere where I got a healthy breakfast/lunch every day for free. It's only $100 or so in actual food cost savings, but it's a lot of mental overhead that you get to pass on. Lot less stress on my life to make sure I prep enough for the week, and left to myself, I may not pick as healthy of food as they'd prep for me.
spottybanana 7y ago
I understand that you don't like these products described in the article, but why should the developers of these products pay you money? What are you selling?

Noughmad 7y ago

> So, why don't we kick it old school, and you just pay me money. That's the whole point of all these extra "benefits": so that they can pay you less money.

CGamesPlay 7y ago
If the FAANG companies set any precedent, this isn’t really true.
- im3w1l 7y ago
  They would have to pay even more money without the benefits. Maybe.
- Noughmad 7y ago
  Partially, but for those there's another catch. They have the campuses with game rooms, food, daycare, etc. all in order for you to spend as much time there as possible. They are literally building company towns.
  - disiplus 7y ago
    plus to switch market norms to social norms. they want you to feel like a family, not only because it benefits you, but because it benefits them. you would probably be willing to move furniture to your neighbor but would not do it if he offered you 10usd. they know that we are more productive if we feel like a family and if our opinion maters. this is nothing i came up, it's something that the division inside google came up with when tasked to learn what increases productivity in teams and why are some teams more productive then others. there is a book on the subject that i cannot remember now.
  - coldpie 7y ago
    I visited a major company once, a relatively large company you've all heard of. Went to the bathroom and oh, that's neat, they have toothbrushes and shaving kits and stuff for employees. A couple minutes later it clicked: oh they have those there for when you spend all-nighters. Oh no no no. I'll stick to my small company 9-5 gig, thanks.
    - noirbot 7y ago
      I can't speak to that company's motivations, but my current position has similar amenities (showers with soap, basic toiletries in the bathroom, food/drinks readily available) and I don't think anyone here's been pulling any all-nighters. They're mostly used by folks who bike in to work in the morning and need to clean up, or get something stuck in their teeth after lunch. It could all be some malicious plot for when the 24-hour work days hit in a few months, or it could just be a nice and relatively cheap benefit that helps people out? I know there's plenty of times I realize I have to present at a meeting and I'd feel much better if I could make sure I was well-groomed before it. It's not hard to make almost any action a company makes into evidence of brutal malice, but that doesn't mean it's always true.
  - opportune 7y ago
    This is also really overplayed. I know many people who work at big tech companies and I've spent some time at a megacorp or two in my day. The on-campus amenities may keep you at work longer (willingly!) but seem pretty orthogonal to how much time people really spend working. Low-amenity Amazon has long hours, High-amenity Google has pretty normal/reasonable hours, high-amenity Facebook has high-ish hours, low-amenity Microsoft has normal/reasonable hours.
    - noirbot 7y ago
      Yea, I just see it as an added benefit that may or may not have value to me. My current job has a happy-hour on Fridays with beer/snacks, but I'm usually not around late enough in the day to attend. That said, once a month or so, it's a free meal and a couple drinks, so it's an extra $10-20 a month I get to save. Things like free food are gimmicky, but it's also a non-trivial financial and time benefit to not have to prep a fresh meal a few days a week. I'd take a small salary cut to work somewhere where I got a healthy breakfast/lunch every day for free. It's only $100 or so in actual food cost savings, but it's a lot of mental overhead that you get to pass on. Lot less stress on my life to make sure I prep enough for the week, and left to myself, I may not pick as healthy of food as they'd prep for me.

spottybanana 7y ago

I understand that you don't like these products described in the article, but why should the developers of these products pay you money? What are you selling?