3 ms·

Even worse, it's not even internally consistent: while the month of the year starts at 0, the day of the month starts at 1. This is one of the worst API design

by cesarb 7y ago

Even worse, it's not even internally consistent: while the month of the year starts at 0, the day of the month starts at 1. This is one of the worst API design mistakes of Java, and Javascript blindly copied it. At least the newer Java APIs (the java.time ones) fixed that: the month starts at 1 with the newer APIs (when not using the enum). But I don't have much hope of Javascript copying the new and better API.

nobleach 7y ago
I definitely don't think Brendan "blindly" copied it. At the time, Sun was pushing Java hard. Netscape wanted in on that. So they delivered an edict to "make it look like Java". We can all say, "well I would have pushed back". But it's hard to say what would have happened. He'd have probably been taken off the project. Hindsight really is 20/20.
- gruez 7y ago
  >At the time, Sun was pushing Java hard. Netscape wanted in on that. [...] He'd have probably been taken off the project. Can you elaborate on this? Was netscape owned/funded by Sun?
  - tyingq 7y ago
    There was a partnership. The CNet article is still around. https://www.cnet.com/news/netscape-and-sun-unveil-javascript/ https://www.cnet.com/news/netscape-and-sun-unveil-javascript...
baddox 7y ago
The reason there's an "exception" for days is that the numbers are the widely-used names for the day of the month. Months arguably don't have widely-used numeric names, although it's pretty reasonably to argue that because numeric month-and-day formatting is so ubiquitous it would have been okay to 1-index the months. It occurs to me that "9/11" is the one date I can think of where the month is commonly verbally referred to by its number.
- samatman 7y ago
  That's... a terrible argument. 1970-01-01T00:00:00 is the start of the Unix Epoch, it is definitely not 1970-00-01T00:00:00. This is consistent across all the warty and various ways to represent the Gregorian calendar, the fifth month is always May, no exceptions.
  - strbean 7y ago
    I think parent means that we often say: > I get my check on the first of the month But never really say > I'm going on vacation for the sixth (month) of the year Seems like they are just trying to explain the bad decision, not justify it.
    - baddox 7y ago
      Yes, I'm not trying to justify it. And it's not just that we say "the fifth day of May," because it's also true that we can say "the third month." My point is that the fifth day of May is actually named "5" and there's no other name for dates (other than specially=named days, of course).
- paulddraper 7y ago
  That consistent with days of the week, which start at 0 on Sunday. The bigger WTF is getYear(), which returns the year minus 1,900.
- pintxo 7y ago
  Wasn't the reason for the 0-indexed month that this would make picking the name of the month from the 0-indexed array of month names easier?
- gruez 7y ago
  > Months arguably don't have widely-used numeric names, You forgot about east asian languages, which all use numeral months. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_calendar#Month https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_calendar#Month https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_calendar#Months https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_calendar#Months https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_calendar#Months https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_calendar#Months
paulddraper 7y ago
It's bizarre that Java....Java....was able to fix this years before JS even really seriously considered it. I don't know whether JS is fast-evolving or slow-evolving.

by cesarb 7y ago

nobleach 7y ago

I definitely don't think Brendan "blindly" copied it. At the time, Sun was pushing Java hard. Netscape wanted in on that. So they delivered an edict to "make it look like Java". We can all say, "well I would have pushed back". But it's hard to say what would have happened. He'd have probably been taken off the project. Hindsight really is 20/20.

gruez 7y ago
>At the time, Sun was pushing Java hard. Netscape wanted in on that. [...] He'd have probably been taken off the project. Can you elaborate on this? Was netscape owned/funded by Sun?
- tyingq 7y ago
  There was a partnership. The CNet article is still around. https://www.cnet.com/news/netscape-and-sun-unveil-javascript/ https://www.cnet.com/news/netscape-and-sun-unveil-javascript...

baddox 7y ago

The reason there's an "exception" for days is that the numbers are the widely-used names for the day of the month. Months arguably don't have widely-used numeric names, although it's pretty reasonably to argue that because numeric month-and-day formatting is so ubiquitous it would have been okay to 1-index the months. It occurs to me that "9/11" is the one date I can think of where the month is commonly verbally referred to by its number.

samatman 7y ago
That's... a terrible argument. 1970-01-01T00:00:00 is the start of the Unix Epoch, it is definitely not 1970-00-01T00:00:00. This is consistent across all the warty and various ways to represent the Gregorian calendar, the fifth month is always May, no exceptions.
- strbean 7y ago
  I think parent means that we often say: > I get my check on the first of the month But never really say > I'm going on vacation for the sixth (month) of the year Seems like they are just trying to explain the bad decision, not justify it.
  - baddox 7y ago
    Yes, I'm not trying to justify it. And it's not just that we say "the fifth day of May," because it's also true that we can say "the third month." My point is that the fifth day of May is actually named "5" and there's no other name for dates (other than specially=named days, of course).
paulddraper 7y ago
That consistent with days of the week, which start at 0 on Sunday. The bigger WTF is getYear(), which returns the year minus 1,900.
pintxo 7y ago
Wasn't the reason for the 0-indexed month that this would make picking the name of the month from the 0-indexed array of month names easier?
gruez 7y ago
> Months arguably don't have widely-used numeric names, You forgot about east asian languages, which all use numeral months. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_calendar#Month https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_calendar#Month https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_calendar#Months https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_calendar#Months https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_calendar#Months https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_calendar#Months

paulddraper 7y ago

It's bizarre that Java....Java....was able to fix this years before JS even really seriously considered it. I don't know whether JS is fast-evolving or slow-evolving.