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I am continually amazed at how many people believe that "free speech" applies to anything other than the government. No government agency is allowed to impede

I am continually amazed at how many people believe that "free speech" applies to anything other than the government. No government agency is allowed to impede free speech (with a handful of exceptions). This rule does not apply to any other organization.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
blackflame7000 7y ago
What about a company partially owned by the Chinese using censorship as a means to interfere in the US election?
yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
Free speech isn't limited to the government. The government may be the only entity legally obligated to uphold it, but we can still be unhappy when others elect to suppress it.
- sixstringtheory 7y ago
  You can be unhappy, absolutely. But you still don’t get to dictate what reddit does or to what their users should be subjected.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    I don't think anyone was trying to dictate what they do, they are just voicing their disdain. It's a very reasonable thing to be unhappy about, and a great way to lose users.
dx87 7y ago
I'm continually amazed at how many people believe that "free speech" didn't exist before the 1st amendment was added to the constitution of the USA.
- sixstringtheory 7y ago
  What’s your point? That because in theory you might have been able to say something without losing your head before the US constitution existed, that suddenly we should apply constraints meant only for the government to private entities or citizens? Seems like a non sequitur to me.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    It's funny how pro-capitalistic people get here when this comes up. Everyone here is big government, anti-censorship, pro-speech, pro-decentralization, anti-corporation UNTIL conservatives are targeted. As a conservative (libertarian) yes, legally speaking they can do whatever they want, but morally speaking, it's fucked up. Ironic the quote below now applies to the opposite side. ---- First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me — and there was no one left to speak for me.
    - sixstringtheory 7y ago
      I see nothing wrong with it according to my morals. Maybe you could expand on what moral system would force people to interact with trolls. And I’m surprised to hear from a self-avowed libertarian that doesn’t seem to have heard of the concept of freedom of association. The “they” in that poem refers to the Nazi government. Reddit is not a government. It is people having discussions on a website run by a company. Everyone has a choice of whether or not to use it; not so with the Nazi regime. Have you never had to throw unruly people out of a house party? If not, well then lucky you, but that’s basically what’s being done here.
      - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
        > I see nothing wrong with it according to my morals. Then you're blinded by bias. > Maybe you could expand on what moral system would force people to interact with trolls. The members overall aren't trolls and trolling isn't concentrated just in the T_D. Stopping all trolling is impossible and T_D mods did not encourage it in anyway. I have yet to see proof in this thread or the Reddit announcements. > libertarian that doesn’t seem to have heard of the concept of freedom of association I wouldn't mention freedom of association because it's heavily tied into freedom of speech in the US judicial system (NAACP v. Alabama). It rules that freedom of association is an essential part of freedom of speech because, in many cases, people can engage in effective speech only when they join with others. > Reddit is not a government. Well this contradicts your previous point above, but sure let's take this path. Yes, Reddit can do whatever they want, I noted that above saying it's legal. That does not mean if makes it right. If the government couldn't do it because it violates the Constitution then it's wrong in my eyes for a company to do it, even if they can legally. > Everyone has a choice of whether or not to use it; not so with the Nazi regime. No they don't, because they are being kicked out and the rules have been changing specifically for them. > Have you never had to throw unruly people out of a house party? Have you ever thrown a small get together and everyone in the block called the cops because they just hate you and want to see your fun shut down? That's more what it's like it my eyes.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

blackflame7000 7y ago

What about a company partially owned by the Chinese using censorship as a means to interfere in the US election?

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago

Free speech isn't limited to the government. The government may be the only entity legally obligated to uphold it, but we can still be unhappy when others elect to suppress it.

sixstringtheory 7y ago
You can be unhappy, absolutely. But you still don’t get to dictate what reddit does or to what their users should be subjected.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  I don't think anyone was trying to dictate what they do, they are just voicing their disdain. It's a very reasonable thing to be unhappy about, and a great way to lose users.

dx87 7y ago

I'm continually amazed at how many people believe that "free speech" didn't exist before the 1st amendment was added to the constitution of the USA.

sixstringtheory 7y ago
What’s your point? That because in theory you might have been able to say something without losing your head before the US constitution existed, that suddenly we should apply constraints meant only for the government to private entities or citizens? Seems like a non sequitur to me.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  It's funny how pro-capitalistic people get here when this comes up. Everyone here is big government, anti-censorship, pro-speech, pro-decentralization, anti-corporation UNTIL conservatives are targeted. As a conservative (libertarian) yes, legally speaking they can do whatever they want, but morally speaking, it's fucked up. Ironic the quote below now applies to the opposite side. ---- First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me — and there was no one left to speak for me.
  - sixstringtheory 7y ago
    I see nothing wrong with it according to my morals. Maybe you could expand on what moral system would force people to interact with trolls. And I’m surprised to hear from a self-avowed libertarian that doesn’t seem to have heard of the concept of freedom of association. The “they” in that poem refers to the Nazi government. Reddit is not a government. It is people having discussions on a website run by a company. Everyone has a choice of whether or not to use it; not so with the Nazi regime. Have you never had to throw unruly people out of a house party? If not, well then lucky you, but that’s basically what’s being done here.
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
      > I see nothing wrong with it according to my morals. Then you're blinded by bias. > Maybe you could expand on what moral system would force people to interact with trolls. The members overall aren't trolls and trolling isn't concentrated just in the T_D. Stopping all trolling is impossible and T_D mods did not encourage it in anyway. I have yet to see proof in this thread or the Reddit announcements. > libertarian that doesn’t seem to have heard of the concept of freedom of association I wouldn't mention freedom of association because it's heavily tied into freedom of speech in the US judicial system (NAACP v. Alabama). It rules that freedom of association is an essential part of freedom of speech because, in many cases, people can engage in effective speech only when they join with others. > Reddit is not a government. Well this contradicts your previous point above, but sure let's take this path. Yes, Reddit can do whatever they want, I noted that above saying it's legal. That does not mean if makes it right. If the government couldn't do it because it violates the Constitution then it's wrong in my eyes for a company to do it, even if they can legally. > Everyone has a choice of whether or not to use it; not so with the Nazi regime. No they don't, because they are being kicked out and the rules have been changing specifically for them. > Have you never had to throw unruly people out of a house party? Have you ever thrown a small get together and everyone in the block called the cops because they just hate you and want to see your fun shut down? That's more what it's like it my eyes.