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I love using MacOS now that I'm used to it, but it really is a disaster from a basic UX point of view. Even just installing applications on MacOS is wacky, and

I love using MacOS now that I'm used to it, but it really is a disaster from a basic UX point of view. Even just installing applications on MacOS is wacky, and it makes me wonder how Macs got their reputation of being easier to use than Windows computers.

robocat 7y ago
Off-topic, but is it really common to confuse the difference between UX and UI? (I think "love using MacOS" implies good UX, and doesn't imply a UX "disaster": maybe I'm wrong or I'm misreading the comment?). Professionally, I can't see how I could ever use "UX" without being confusing, either because I'm using the concept poorly or because I'd expect my audience to misunderstand my meaning. Disclaimer: I've spent years working on UI (even developing controls, caring deeply about usability) but I've never spent much time specifically working on UX.
- woodrowbarlow 7y ago
  i've taken three university courses on user interface design and human-computer interactions. i still don't know the difference between UI and UX except in a vague sense.
  - AlanYx 7y ago
    You're not alone. Authors in the field aren't always consistent either, to the point where people have written academic papers trying to sort through the various definitions of what "UX" is, trying to give it some kind of clear scope, e.g. [1]. [1]: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221518375_Understanding_scoping_and_defining_user_experience_A_survey_approach https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221518375_Understan...
  - Someone 7y ago
    A good UI makes you get things done easily. A good UX makes you feel good doing things, even though you may not get anything done. Confusion arises because, typically, not getting things done makes you feel bad.
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    UI just seems like the concrete application of UX concerns.
  - Tagbert 7y ago
    UX is the _experience_ of interacting with the controls and displays on the screen (UI) UI is what you see UX is how you use it
timw4mail 7y ago
Surely using the app store, or dragging an app to the applications folder is more sane than every program needing a installer program to put all the files in the right places?
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  > Surely [...] dragging an app to the applications folder is more sane than every program needing a installer program to put all the files in the right places? Yes. It was more sane, when: 1. The Applications folder lived on the Dock, so users actually knew it was there. 2. Many applications (much more than today) were distributed via DMG's with instructions that an app should be dragged to the Applications folder. Without either of these things, a lot of users end up just running an application from their Downloads folder. Worse, doing it the right way involves on a non-trivial number of steps. You have to (1) open the Finder, (2) navigate to the Applications folder, and (3) then drag the app from Downloads into Applications.
  - samatman 7y ago
    Of all the numerous and growing usability problems with macOS, this isn't one that's ever occurred to me. Applications is, by default, in the Favorites bar of Finder. Which is where a user would find the Download folder, granted that Applications is lower in the list, but... Second, a significant number of programs are installed from the App Store now. Of those that aren't, it's still quite normal to open up a DMG and have two icons: the application, and a link to the Applications folder. Often with a bit of icon magic so the application points at the folder. Some applications still use an installer, in which case the app lands in the Applications folder, again. Is this really a problem? I've been using OSX for far too long to be in a position to tell...
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> It makes me wonder how Macs got their reputation of being easier to use than Windows computers. Because they used to be easier. I made a post on this elsewhere in this thread. For installing applications: Apple used to place a stack for the Applications folder in your Dock by default, and you'd use that stack to launch any applications that weren't already in your Dock. It was natural that you'd install new applications by dragging them to the same place you launched them.
rabuse 7y ago
I can't tell you how many times I've had to show people how to install applications from an "unidentified developer" (which seems to be most).
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  Let's be fair, that's not the same thing. Apple purposefully made this behavior obtuse to stop users who don't know better from running TotallyLegitAdobeFlashUpdater.app I think the current behavior is a fine compromise.

robocat 7y ago

Off-topic, but is it really common to confuse the difference between UX and UI? (I think "love using MacOS" implies good UX, and doesn't imply a UX "disaster": maybe I'm wrong or I'm misreading the comment?). Professionally, I can't see how I could ever use "UX" without being confusing, either because I'm using the concept poorly or because I'd expect my audience to misunderstand my meaning. Disclaimer: I've spent years working on UI (even developing controls, caring deeply about usability) but I've never spent much time specifically working on UX.

woodrowbarlow 7y ago
i've taken three university courses on user interface design and human-computer interactions. i still don't know the difference between UI and UX except in a vague sense.
- AlanYx 7y ago
  You're not alone. Authors in the field aren't always consistent either, to the point where people have written academic papers trying to sort through the various definitions of what "UX" is, trying to give it some kind of clear scope, e.g. [1]. [1]: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221518375_Understanding_scoping_and_defining_user_experience_A_survey_approach https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221518375_Understan...
- Someone 7y ago
  A good UI makes you get things done easily. A good UX makes you feel good doing things, even though you may not get anything done. Confusion arises because, typically, not getting things done makes you feel bad.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  UI just seems like the concrete application of UX concerns.
- Tagbert 7y ago
  UX is the _experience_ of interacting with the controls and displays on the screen (UI) UI is what you see UX is how you use it

timw4mail 7y ago

Surely using the app store, or dragging an app to the applications folder is more sane than every program needing a installer program to put all the files in the right places?

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> Surely [...] dragging an app to the applications folder is more sane than every program needing a installer program to put all the files in the right places? Yes. It was more sane, when: 1. The Applications folder lived on the Dock, so users actually knew it was there. 2. Many applications (much more than today) were distributed via DMG's with instructions that an app should be dragged to the Applications folder. Without either of these things, a lot of users end up just running an application from their Downloads folder. Worse, doing it the right way involves on a non-trivial number of steps. You have to (1) open the Finder, (2) navigate to the Applications folder, and (3) then drag the app from Downloads into Applications.
- samatman 7y ago
  Of all the numerous and growing usability problems with macOS, this isn't one that's ever occurred to me. Applications is, by default, in the Favorites bar of Finder. Which is where a user would find the Download folder, granted that Applications is lower in the list, but... Second, a significant number of programs are installed from the App Store now. Of those that aren't, it's still quite normal to open up a DMG and have two icons: the application, and a link to the Applications folder. Often with a bit of icon magic so the application points at the folder. Some applications still use an installer, in which case the app lands in the Applications folder, again. Is this really a problem? I've been using OSX for far too long to be in a position to tell...

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

> It makes me wonder how Macs got their reputation of being easier to use than Windows computers. Because they used to be easier. I made a post on this elsewhere in this thread. For installing applications: Apple used to place a stack for the Applications folder in your Dock by default, and you'd use that stack to launch any applications that weren't already in your Dock. It was natural that you'd install new applications by dragging them to the same place you launched them.

rabuse 7y ago

I can't tell you how many times I've had to show people how to install applications from an "unidentified developer" (which seems to be most).

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
Let's be fair, that's not the same thing. Apple purposefully made this behavior obtuse to stop users who don't know better from running TotallyLegitAdobeFlashUpdater.app I think the current behavior is a fine compromise.