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True... and as China is lifted out of poverty, the US standard of living is decreasing because those who have capital are leveraging their capital against those

True... and as China is lifted out of poverty, the US standard of living is decreasing because those who have capital are leveraging their capital against those without (enabled by a lack of regulation which is, in turn, a result of corruption). It seems that in speaking of "capitalism", some are speaking of capitalism as a distribution system (which is entirely sensible) and some are speaking of Capitalism as a philosophy (which, more or less, idealizes the law of the jungle). My guess is that Riseup is speaking of "capitalism" in the latter sense (and, if so, adding "unregulated" to their wording would clarify their position).

aneth 16y ago
I think that might be an ambitious guess regarding Riseup's intentions - they don't make any such distinction. They demonstrate a typical uninformed, knee-jerk, radical anarchist philosophy. For reference, a definition of capitalism: "An economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth." I don't agree that the US standard of living is decreasing "because those who have capital are leveraging their capital against those without." In fact, the US has an extraordinary high standard of living, far better than 20 years ago (just look at a grocery store, your average automobile or home, or what people do on vacation.) If it is plateauing or declining the last few years, it is for other reasons, including: - An unrealistic increase over the last 10 years built on credit. It will take a few years before our economy catches up with that. - A wasteful and destructive government education system rotting for lack a free enterprise and undermining our economy as a whole. - Wasteful government spending and borrowing - trillions of dollars spent on corruption and war. Nobody is using capital "against" anyone - I'm not even sure precisely whbat it means, yet I'm quite sure it's false.
- mcantelon 16y ago
  >I think that might be an ambitious guess regarding Riseup's intentions - they don't make any such distinction. Perhaps, although I've never met an anarchist calling for a centrally planned economy. Most anarchists have jobs and use money and some even run businesses. They're primarily against coercion and abuse perpetrated by the state and corporations rather than against people buying and selling things per se. >the US has an extraordinary high standard of living, far better than 20 years ago We're a few years into a global recession, with massive job losses and unemployment. It seems counter-intuitive that this leads to an increase in the standard of living. >Nobody is using capital "against" anyone - I'm not even sure precisely what it means, yet I'm quite sure it's false. I would say the recent economic collapse is a fairly good example of the use of capital agressively. Those who introduced derivatives into the market did so by more or less paying government representatives to remove legislative barriers. A less dramatic example would be the stereotypical Wal-Mart using its capital to dominate local markets, wiping out existing local enterprise.

aneth 16y ago

I think that might be an ambitious guess regarding Riseup's intentions - they don't make any such distinction. They demonstrate a typical uninformed, knee-jerk, radical anarchist philosophy. For reference, a definition of capitalism: "An economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth." I don't agree that the US standard of living is decreasing "because those who have capital are leveraging their capital against those without." In fact, the US has an extraordinary high standard of living, far better than 20 years ago (just look at a grocery store, your average automobile or home, or what people do on vacation.) If it is plateauing or declining the last few years, it is for other reasons, including: - An unrealistic increase over the last 10 years built on credit. It will take a few years before our economy catches up with that. - A wasteful and destructive government education system rotting for lack a free enterprise and undermining our economy as a whole. - Wasteful government spending and borrowing - trillions of dollars spent on corruption and war. Nobody is using capital "against" anyone - I'm not even sure precisely whbat it means, yet I'm quite sure it's false.

mcantelon 16y ago
>I think that might be an ambitious guess regarding Riseup's intentions - they don't make any such distinction. Perhaps, although I've never met an anarchist calling for a centrally planned economy. Most anarchists have jobs and use money and some even run businesses. They're primarily against coercion and abuse perpetrated by the state and corporations rather than against people buying and selling things per se. >the US has an extraordinary high standard of living, far better than 20 years ago We're a few years into a global recession, with massive job losses and unemployment. It seems counter-intuitive that this leads to an increase in the standard of living. >Nobody is using capital "against" anyone - I'm not even sure precisely what it means, yet I'm quite sure it's false. I would say the recent economic collapse is a fairly good example of the use of capital agressively. Those who introduced derivatives into the market did so by more or less paying government representatives to remove legislative barriers. A less dramatic example would be the stereotypical Wal-Mart using its capital to dominate local markets, wiping out existing local enterprise.