3 ms·

In the US sometimes the evidence isn't clear that facilitating "join back to society" is an actual goal (it's often a stated goal). It often doesn't seem to be

by ska 7y ago

In the US sometimes the evidence isn't clear that facilitating "join back to society" is an actual goal (it's often a stated goal). It often doesn't seem to be a policy priority.

Broken_Hippo 7y ago
It most definitely isn't a priority: If it were, the US would look at other countries with lower recidivism rates and spend a bit more on things like mental health care, halfway houses, job placement, and so on.
- ska 7y ago
  I'm hedging a bit because I don't have a good sense of how things are country wide, but there are some clear cases where it is not.
- zoonosis 7y ago
  While I agree that the US prison system has many issues, recidivism rates can't really be compared between countries because of differences in time frames and rearrest vs re-conviction. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/
  - robocat 7y ago
    The issue is not about comparing recidivism rates. It is whether the US is looking at the results achieved by other countries and whether the US is trying to emulate successful strategies. As a sweeping generalisation, I see that the US says "that doesn't apply to us", always finding some weird excuse. Your invalid response is kind of an example.
    - wahern 7y ago
      How do you "[look] at the results achieved by other countries" if those results aren't reported? It's a fairly common sentiment that the U.S. penal system is heavily skewed toward retribution than reformation.[1] But identifying a problem on the one hand, and quantifying and addressing it on the other, are two entirely separate tasks. The latter is typically much more difficult.[2] [1] Justice Anton Scalia admitted as much in court, "Well, I thought that modern penology has abandoned that rehabilitation thing, and they--they no longer call prisons reformatories or--or whatever, and punishment is the--is the criterion now. Deserved punishment for crime." Oral argument, Miller v. Alabama, 2012. [2] Thus the quip, "Everybody complains about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." A reformulation of a Charles Dudley Warner quote, who, interestingly, also seems to have been an advocate for prison reform in his time, among many other civic and political reforms. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dudley_Warner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dudley_Warner and https://books.google.com/books?id=ktwRAAAAYAAJ&q=+%22little+done%22#v=snippet&q=%22little%20done%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=ktwRAAAAYAAJ&q=+%22little+....
ta999999171 7y ago
Why would it be, when your donors are the private prison owners?
DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
prison isn't designed for reintegrating back into society! If you look at this recent paper[1] by the lancet on "The psychological impact of quarantine and how to reduce it: rapid review of the evidence" (coincidentally it's about the corona virus) then you might notice that the effects of isolation are exactly what prisons are designed to do[2]. For quarantines it's a huge dilemma ofc. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30460-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
michaelbrave 7y ago
So long as there is a permanent criminal record and jobs can not hire people based on that no real change will come.

by ska 7y ago

In the US sometimes the evidence isn't clear that facilitating "join back to society" is an actual goal (it's often a stated goal). It often doesn't seem to be a policy priority.

Broken_Hippo 7y ago

It most definitely isn't a priority: If it were, the US would look at other countries with lower recidivism rates and spend a bit more on things like mental health care, halfway houses, job placement, and so on.

ska 7y ago
I'm hedging a bit because I don't have a good sense of how things are country wide, but there are some clear cases where it is not.
zoonosis 7y ago
While I agree that the US prison system has many issues, recidivism rates can't really be compared between countries because of differences in time frames and rearrest vs re-conviction. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/
- robocat 7y ago
  The issue is not about comparing recidivism rates. It is whether the US is looking at the results achieved by other countries and whether the US is trying to emulate successful strategies. As a sweeping generalisation, I see that the US says "that doesn't apply to us", always finding some weird excuse. Your invalid response is kind of an example.
  - wahern 7y ago
    How do you "[look] at the results achieved by other countries" if those results aren't reported? It's a fairly common sentiment that the U.S. penal system is heavily skewed toward retribution than reformation.[1] But identifying a problem on the one hand, and quantifying and addressing it on the other, are two entirely separate tasks. The latter is typically much more difficult.[2] [1] Justice Anton Scalia admitted as much in court, "Well, I thought that modern penology has abandoned that rehabilitation thing, and they--they no longer call prisons reformatories or--or whatever, and punishment is the--is the criterion now. Deserved punishment for crime." Oral argument, Miller v. Alabama, 2012. [2] Thus the quip, "Everybody complains about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." A reformulation of a Charles Dudley Warner quote, who, interestingly, also seems to have been an advocate for prison reform in his time, among many other civic and political reforms. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dudley_Warner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dudley_Warner and https://books.google.com/books?id=ktwRAAAAYAAJ&q=+%22little+done%22#v=snippet&q=%22little%20done%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=ktwRAAAAYAAJ&q=+%22little+....

ta999999171 7y ago

Why would it be, when your donors are the private prison owners?

DyslexicAtheist 7y ago

prison isn't designed for reintegrating back into society! If you look at this recent paper[1] by the lancet on "The psychological impact of quarantine and how to reduce it: rapid review of the evidence" (coincidentally it's about the corona virus) then you might notice that the effects of isolation are exactly what prisons are designed to do[2]. For quarantines it's a huge dilemma ofc. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30460-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

michaelbrave 7y ago

So long as there is a permanent criminal record and jobs can not hire people based on that no real change will come.