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Excuse me, what the hell? Korea has so far tested 66,652 cases. All under government supervision. Local governments are barging into churches of those damned

Excuse me, what the hell? Korea has so far tested 66,652 cases. All under government supervision. Local governments are barging into churches of those damned Sincheonji cultists responsible for the outbreak, in order to obtain the list of church members. Police force is tracking down cultists who failed to respond. Of course, not all is well, and some critics are arguing we should have blocked people coming from China, which is something only the government can do, by the way. Seriously, Korea is a living demonstration how the government is absolutely critical in controlling an epidemic. I'm tired of this fetishization of "individual responsibility" with no basis in reality.

s1artibartfast 7y ago
Both government and individual responsibility are critical and necessary to controlling the outbreak. The government can not wash your hands for you, or preemptively tell if you becoming sick. I don't see how reminding people of their individual responsibility is detrimental to a government response.
Jommi 7y ago
Can we refrain from any unfounded hate on a religious group? It's not confirmed that they have some anything malicious, and even so it does nothing to help further solving the problem.
- three_seagrass 7y ago
  Their comment does not seem to be particularly hateful against the religious group for it's religion, but it's behavior in hiding sick members' identities and increasing transmission rates. It's already becoming well known that that particular church sect is linked to the start of the disease in South Korea: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/24/808914718/secretive-church-sect-at-the-center-of-south-koreas-coronavirus-outbreak https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/24/8089147...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - s1artibartfast 7y ago
    I think the problem is identifying the behavior as a problem characteristic of the church or sect. This seems like victim blaming to me, especially when there have been there are countless mistakes being made across nations, religions, and organizations. An alternative framing, which I believe to be more productive, is for the entire community to take ownership. "we messed up, we need to do better" At a time like this, we need to partisanship aside and and focus on solutions, not blame. There will be plenty of time for a post-mortem after the crisis has passed.
    - yongjik 7y ago
      In normal cases I would agree: e.g., I'm very much against the xenophobia shown by some Koreans against Chinese (and now, vice versa, it seems -_-). Unfortunately, this Sincheonji cult is something special. I'm sure they didn't intentionally contract coronavirus, but once they did, their behavior went so far into gross stupidity territory that it's hard to distinguish from malice. Even after all national news blared for several days that hundreds were infected by their mass gathering, many of these cultists are still hiding their identity, not responding to authorities, and most infuriatingly, they are still going on about with their business, spreading disease everywhere. A few hours ago it was revealed that a worker at Daegu Airport was Sincheonji cultist, he went to the Sincheonji meeting on 2/16 and kept working between 2/17-2/21, well after the news broke out on 2/18, and now he was diagnosed positive. Some 25k people were estimated to pass through Daegu airport during these days. WTF.
      - s1artibartfast 7y ago
        That sounds like abhorrent and stupid behavior, but I'm still unclear on how it is specific to their cult. Do they not believe in viruses or something? Do we see other people in society working while ill or hiding their identities? Has this been seen in China or other locations? I don't claim to have all the details, but worry that some group is being scapegoated while a larger problem is being ignored. The NPR article in particular was pretty bad [1]. >Critics say the disease may have spread within the church quickly because of the way that it worships. "Shincheonji followers hold services sitting on the floor, without any chairs," packed together "like bean sprouts," > "A bigger problem is that they shout out 'amen' after every sentence the pastor utters, pretty much every few seconds. And they do that at the top of their lungs," [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/24/808914718/secretive-church-sect-at-the-center-of-south-koreas-coronavirus-outbreak https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/24/8089147...
missosoup 7y ago
There are not enough ICU beds or even hospital beds in the country to care for the infected during a major outbreak. The quality of treatment declines exponentially during outbreaks, to the point where it's worse than just holing up at home and some OTC medicines. Every individual is ultimately responsible for their own safety, security, and wellbeing. The government isn't a protective loving parent that will go out of its way to care for you as an individual when infra and institutions become overloaded.

s1artibartfast 7y ago

Both government and individual responsibility are critical and necessary to controlling the outbreak. The government can not wash your hands for you, or preemptively tell if you becoming sick. I don't see how reminding people of their individual responsibility is detrimental to a government response.

Jommi 7y ago

Can we refrain from any unfounded hate on a religious group? It's not confirmed that they have some anything malicious, and even so it does nothing to help further solving the problem.

three_seagrass 7y ago
Their comment does not seem to be particularly hateful against the religious group for it's religion, but it's behavior in hiding sick members' identities and increasing transmission rates. It's already becoming well known that that particular church sect is linked to the start of the disease in South Korea: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/24/808914718/secretive-church-sect-at-the-center-of-south-koreas-coronavirus-outbreak https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/24/8089147...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- s1artibartfast 7y ago
  I think the problem is identifying the behavior as a problem characteristic of the church or sect. This seems like victim blaming to me, especially when there have been there are countless mistakes being made across nations, religions, and organizations. An alternative framing, which I believe to be more productive, is for the entire community to take ownership. "we messed up, we need to do better" At a time like this, we need to partisanship aside and and focus on solutions, not blame. There will be plenty of time for a post-mortem after the crisis has passed.
  - yongjik 7y ago
    In normal cases I would agree: e.g., I'm very much against the xenophobia shown by some Koreans against Chinese (and now, vice versa, it seems -_-). Unfortunately, this Sincheonji cult is something special. I'm sure they didn't intentionally contract coronavirus, but once they did, their behavior went so far into gross stupidity territory that it's hard to distinguish from malice. Even after all national news blared for several days that hundreds were infected by their mass gathering, many of these cultists are still hiding their identity, not responding to authorities, and most infuriatingly, they are still going on about with their business, spreading disease everywhere. A few hours ago it was revealed that a worker at Daegu Airport was Sincheonji cultist, he went to the Sincheonji meeting on 2/16 and kept working between 2/17-2/21, well after the news broke out on 2/18, and now he was diagnosed positive. Some 25k people were estimated to pass through Daegu airport during these days. WTF.
    - s1artibartfast 7y ago
      That sounds like abhorrent and stupid behavior, but I'm still unclear on how it is specific to their cult. Do they not believe in viruses or something? Do we see other people in society working while ill or hiding their identities? Has this been seen in China or other locations? I don't claim to have all the details, but worry that some group is being scapegoated while a larger problem is being ignored. The NPR article in particular was pretty bad [1]. >Critics say the disease may have spread within the church quickly because of the way that it worships. "Shincheonji followers hold services sitting on the floor, without any chairs," packed together "like bean sprouts," > "A bigger problem is that they shout out 'amen' after every sentence the pastor utters, pretty much every few seconds. And they do that at the top of their lungs," [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/24/808914718/secretive-church-sect-at-the-center-of-south-koreas-coronavirus-outbreak https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/24/8089147...

missosoup 7y ago

There are not enough ICU beds or even hospital beds in the country to care for the infected during a major outbreak. The quality of treatment declines exponentially during outbreaks, to the point where it's worse than just holing up at home and some OTC medicines. Every individual is ultimately responsible for their own safety, security, and wellbeing. The government isn't a protective loving parent that will go out of its way to care for you as an individual when infra and institutions become overloaded.