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This is off-topic, but I really like the current GOV.UK (several years old now). I don't really have opinions on the visual stuff, but I find it really pleasan

This is off-topic, but I really like the current GOV.UK (several years old now). I don't really have opinions on the visual stuff, but I find it really pleasant to use. Filing my self-assessment tax return (only required because I run a side-business) is a fantastically straightforward experience. Step-by-step information entry, pre-filled with what they already know (e.g. main employer's salary), then they give you a number at the end which you pay by card. Having done the paper version exactly once before moving over to doing them online, I feel grateful every time I see that distinctive custom font.

jackdeansmith 7y ago
As a US guy, I've never looked at this site before. The extreme clarity of pages like https://www.gov.uk/vat-rates https://www.gov.uk/vat-rates is really refreshing.
- lioeters 7y ago
  Indeed, that's a nice example. I felt the design could even improve public relations. If I were a UK citizen, I'd be relieved to find the information so well-designed and presented. I've read here and there about the UK Government Digital Service, and have a very good impression. Reading a recent related article, it sounds like they have their priorities right! https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2019/11/05/transforming-gov-uk-the-future-of-digital-public-services/ https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2019/11/05/transforming-gov-uk-the-f...
  - dmix 7y ago
    The UK has long been an early adopter of proper web design for government websites. Seeing the average Canadian gov website, and hearing stories from people who've worked on some at the federal level, makes my head hurt.
    - frosted-flakes 7y ago
      The Canadian and provincial governments are getting better though. See the OSAP (Ontario Student Assistance Program) application page, which is fully mobile and vastly simplified from the hot mess it used to be. Also, just look at https://ontario.ca https://ontario.ca in general, which is clearly inspired by Gov.UK.
      - dmix 7y ago
        All it takes is one group to do it right and everyone wants to copy them. Good job UK, this Ontario site looks like a semi rip-off of the gov.uk sites (which is a good thing). Everything slowly gets better online, it just takes time.
- bflesch 7y ago
  In Germany, I can't even find the VAT rate info page at the ministry via google. I end up with this: https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Web/DE/Themen/Steuern/Steuerarten/Umsatzsteuer/umsatzsteuer.html https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Web/DE/Themen/Steuern...
mattmanser 7y ago
Fantastically straight forward? I strongly disagree. I've done the SA many times, and trying to find out your balance or payments list or anything useful is now a kafka-esque nightmare. Last time I knew they must owe me money but they didn't say at the end, and it took me about 15 minutes to find out how much, with no indication of when it would arrive. At the end of the SA they even had some sort of message saying make sure you pay what you owe, which turned out to be nothing. This is all complicated because you pay on account, paying the next year's tax 15 months before you submit your return (they guess your next tax bill based on the previous one, as you don't submit the return for 9 months after the end of the tax year, so you don't get in too much credit). The new SA process is no different from the old one, with minor cosmetic enhancements, but they've made it almost impossible to get to the old account sections. Notice how there's no login button. On a website that relies on logging in. Now search for "self assessment login" or "self assessment account" or "self-assessment balance". See any login button? See anything resembling a login? last year you could still get to the old account screen after some hunting, but that's gone now. The new account screen is a mass of text with links sprinkled through out, where the old one was a compact menu. Plus, when you finally do find your accounts, you can only see one year at a time, have to use a drop down to change year, the amounts you owed are on one page, they amounts you paid are on another, some of these figures are still provisional, and nothing adds up. As for submitting your company accounts, what a joke that used to be when they re-did it. I knew exactly what type of account I needed to submit. But to get to that form, I think they had a labyrinth of 16 web pages, each just one question per page, that you had to answer while they unhelpfully tried to pick the form you needed for you. Get the wrong form? No way to go back to see what answer you got wrong, no way to fix it, you just had to start again. It meant I had to go through it 3 or 4 times before I finally got the right form. Before they "renovated" it, you just picked the form you needed. They even did a whole blog post about how great the one page per question concept was, which turned out to be utterly bullshit. I've lost all faith in the gov.uk team, I feel they're trying too hard to be cool and "innovative". They have thrown out convention, and are often making poor UIs and user journeys because of it.
- maxcbc 7y ago
  I’m biased, I used to work at GDS. The lack of a ‘login’ button is a huge issue IMHO, but the main blocker to it isn’t the tech teams, its at the ministerial/senior civil service level. The problem isn’t the button itself but the infrastructure behind it. I.e. it requires a single database of users (i.e. a national register of citizens). This needs doing, but politicians come out in hives because it involves setting up a system similar to national ID cards (politically difficult). Senior civil servants dislike it because its a question of which department owns it, if its GDS its the cabinet office, and that means the Home Office, DWP, HMRC surrendering some control (i.e. being increasingly dependent on external systems), which is something departments seem to dislike. It’d save millions (billions probably) in the long run, but there isn’t the political will to do it. It would need an influential cabinet minister to push it through and would take 3-5 years to get properly embedded.

jackdeansmith 7y ago

As a US guy, I've never looked at this site before. The extreme clarity of pages like https://www.gov.uk/vat-rates https://www.gov.uk/vat-rates is really refreshing.

lioeters 7y ago
Indeed, that's a nice example. I felt the design could even improve public relations. If I were a UK citizen, I'd be relieved to find the information so well-designed and presented. I've read here and there about the UK Government Digital Service, and have a very good impression. Reading a recent related article, it sounds like they have their priorities right! https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2019/11/05/transforming-gov-uk-the-future-of-digital-public-services/ https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2019/11/05/transforming-gov-uk-the-f...
- dmix 7y ago
  The UK has long been an early adopter of proper web design for government websites. Seeing the average Canadian gov website, and hearing stories from people who've worked on some at the federal level, makes my head hurt.
  - frosted-flakes 7y ago
    The Canadian and provincial governments are getting better though. See the OSAP (Ontario Student Assistance Program) application page, which is fully mobile and vastly simplified from the hot mess it used to be. Also, just look at https://ontario.ca https://ontario.ca in general, which is clearly inspired by Gov.UK.
    - dmix 7y ago
      All it takes is one group to do it right and everyone wants to copy them. Good job UK, this Ontario site looks like a semi rip-off of the gov.uk sites (which is a good thing). Everything slowly gets better online, it just takes time.
bflesch 7y ago
In Germany, I can't even find the VAT rate info page at the ministry via google. I end up with this: https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Web/DE/Themen/Steuern/Steuerarten/Umsatzsteuer/umsatzsteuer.html https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Web/DE/Themen/Steuern...

mattmanser 7y ago

Fantastically straight forward? I strongly disagree. I've done the SA many times, and trying to find out your balance or payments list or anything useful is now a kafka-esque nightmare. Last time I knew they must owe me money but they didn't say at the end, and it took me about 15 minutes to find out how much, with no indication of when it would arrive. At the end of the SA they even had some sort of message saying make sure you pay what you owe, which turned out to be nothing. This is all complicated because you pay on account, paying the next year's tax 15 months before you submit your return (they guess your next tax bill based on the previous one, as you don't submit the return for 9 months after the end of the tax year, so you don't get in too much credit). The new SA process is no different from the old one, with minor cosmetic enhancements, but they've made it almost impossible to get to the old account sections. Notice how there's no login button. On a website that relies on logging in. Now search for "self assessment login" or "self assessment account" or "self-assessment balance". See any login button? See anything resembling a login? last year you could still get to the old account screen after some hunting, but that's gone now. The new account screen is a mass of text with links sprinkled through out, where the old one was a compact menu. Plus, when you finally do find your accounts, you can only see one year at a time, have to use a drop down to change year, the amounts you owed are on one page, they amounts you paid are on another, some of these figures are still provisional, and nothing adds up. As for submitting your company accounts, what a joke that used to be when they re-did it. I knew exactly what type of account I needed to submit. But to get to that form, I think they had a labyrinth of 16 web pages, each just one question per page, that you had to answer while they unhelpfully tried to pick the form you needed for you. Get the wrong form? No way to go back to see what answer you got wrong, no way to fix it, you just had to start again. It meant I had to go through it 3 or 4 times before I finally got the right form. Before they "renovated" it, you just picked the form you needed. They even did a whole blog post about how great the one page per question concept was, which turned out to be utterly bullshit. I've lost all faith in the gov.uk team, I feel they're trying too hard to be cool and "innovative". They have thrown out convention, and are often making poor UIs and user journeys because of it.

maxcbc 7y ago
I’m biased, I used to work at GDS. The lack of a ‘login’ button is a huge issue IMHO, but the main blocker to it isn’t the tech teams, its at the ministerial/senior civil service level. The problem isn’t the button itself but the infrastructure behind it. I.e. it requires a single database of users (i.e. a national register of citizens). This needs doing, but politicians come out in hives because it involves setting up a system similar to national ID cards (politically difficult). Senior civil servants dislike it because its a question of which department owns it, if its GDS its the cabinet office, and that means the Home Office, DWP, HMRC surrendering some control (i.e. being increasingly dependent on external systems), which is something departments seem to dislike. It’d save millions (billions probably) in the long run, but there isn’t the political will to do it. It would need an influential cabinet minister to push it through and would take 3-5 years to get properly embedded.