5 ms·

Maybe false negatives or even false positives could be a liability issue?

claudeganon 7y ago
From reports, the Chinese tests have fairly high false negatives, but they’re still deploying them en masse because catching as much as is possible better than not catching anything at all. I’ve seen nothing on false positives.
- orblivion 7y ago
  Yeah at the end of the day it seems by far the best outcome. I'm just thinking there may be some sort of red tape surrounding the liability aspects of that outcome. Like maybe there's a waiver of liability for passing a sick person off as healthy, except it only applies to such and such equipment, etc. I'm just using my imagination here, I have no experience in the medical industry.
Reelin 7y ago
If you're using an officially published primer sequence? Possible (due to supplier or user error), but _highly_ unlikely. We're pretty good at molecular biology at this point.
- prepend 7y ago
  Isn’t the idea of review to confirm that “highly unlikely?” Without review, unscrupulous (or incompetent) vendors could make a test with unknown usefulness.
  - Reelin 7y ago
    I'm not talking about making an entire test kit, but rather labs with existing RT-PCR abilities (ie the vast majority of molecular biology labs) having the appropriate primers and probes synthesized by the standard (non-clinical) vendors that they order from every day.
oceanghost 7y ago
Type-1 and Type-2 errors... :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_and_type_II_errors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_and_type_II_errors Medical testing is very, very murky. There was a time a routine medical test for me came back, indicating I possibly had Lupus. It turns out; this test has a false positive rate of about 5%. I am a white male, and the rate for lupus for my group is astronomically low. The rate for the worst group (black females) is like 500 in 100,000. There's some evidence the rate around white males might be six times lower. Had I known any of this at the time, or had my doctor explained it, I wouldn't have spent weeks worrying. The fact is, medical tests just update the probability you're sick or well. And this is why they have to be well understood.
- magduf 7y ago
  I had a problem a couple years ago where my test showed that I had hypothyroidism. My doctor wanted to immediately put me on sythetic thyroid hormone to adjust this. The problem is that I'm thin, athletic, and have no other indicators for risk of hypothyroidism. I said no to the doctor, and had them do another test, which said I was just fine.
  - cjbprime 7y ago
    The story is not so remarkable: there is no harm from taking synthetic thyroid hormone, and your TSH is monitored while taking it such that I think the mistake would have been discovered later.
    - magduf 7y ago
      >there is no harm from taking synthetic thyroid hormone Where are you getting this crazy idea? Have you ever known anyone who took it? I have two relatives (not biological) on synthroid and even small changes in doses have massive effects on their metabolism, tiredness, etc. Taking thyroid hormone when you don't need it is not harmless, just like any drug or hormone.
      - cjbprime 7y ago

From reports, the Chinese tests have fairly high false negatives, but they’re still deploying them en masse because catching as much as is possible better than not catching anything at all. I’ve seen nothing on false positives.

orblivion 7y ago
Yeah at the end of the day it seems by far the best outcome. I'm just thinking there may be some sort of red tape surrounding the liability aspects of that outcome. Like maybe there's a waiver of liability for passing a sick person off as healthy, except it only applies to such and such equipment, etc. I'm just using my imagination here, I have no experience in the medical industry.

Reelin 7y ago

If you're using an officially published primer sequence? Possible (due to supplier or user error), but _highly_ unlikely. We're pretty good at molecular biology at this point.

prepend 7y ago
Isn’t the idea of review to confirm that “highly unlikely?” Without review, unscrupulous (or incompetent) vendors could make a test with unknown usefulness.
- Reelin 7y ago
  I'm not talking about making an entire test kit, but rather labs with existing RT-PCR abilities (ie the vast majority of molecular biology labs) having the appropriate primers and probes synthesized by the standard (non-clinical) vendors that they order from every day.

oceanghost 7y ago

Type-1 and Type-2 errors... :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_and_type_II_errors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_and_type_II_errors Medical testing is very, very murky. There was a time a routine medical test for me came back, indicating I possibly had Lupus. It turns out; this test has a false positive rate of about 5%. I am a white male, and the rate for lupus for my group is astronomically low. The rate for the worst group (black females) is like 500 in 100,000. There's some evidence the rate around white males might be six times lower. Had I known any of this at the time, or had my doctor explained it, I wouldn't have spent weeks worrying. The fact is, medical tests just update the probability you're sick or well. And this is why they have to be well understood.

magduf 7y ago
I had a problem a couple years ago where my test showed that I had hypothyroidism. My doctor wanted to immediately put me on sythetic thyroid hormone to adjust this. The problem is that I'm thin, athletic, and have no other indicators for risk of hypothyroidism. I said no to the doctor, and had them do another test, which said I was just fine.
- cjbprime 7y ago
  The story is not so remarkable: there is no harm from taking synthetic thyroid hormone, and your TSH is monitored while taking it such that I think the mistake would have been discovered later.
  - magduf 7y ago
    >there is no harm from taking synthetic thyroid hormone Where are you getting this crazy idea? Have you ever known anyone who took it? I have two relatives (not biological) on synthroid and even small changes in doses have massive effects on their metabolism, tiredness, etc. Taking thyroid hormone when you don't need it is not harmless, just like any drug or hormone.
    - cjbprime 7y ago