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Is it wrong that I find it a terrible thing that people aren't allowed computers with internet or cellphones in prison? How do we expect people to join back to

Is it wrong that I find it a terrible thing that people aren't allowed computers with internet or cellphones in prison? How do we expect people to join back to society when they can't use literally the number one most important thing? Maybe give them phones with no cameras and monitoring of use, but just nothing seems very inhumane.

blackearl 7y ago
There are prisons charging per minute for calls and e-readers. I really doubt they would be humane enough to allow that
- smokelegend 7y ago
  I think this is a understatement... Every US prison/jail/detention center has a "pay-to-play" program administered by profit driven private companies who (IMU) overcharge for these basic services. $5.99 a minute is outrageous! I feel like these companies are allowed to prey on the most vulnerable people and no one cares because there not what society considers "good people".
ska 7y ago
In the US sometimes the evidence isn't clear that facilitating "join back to society" is an actual goal (it's often a stated goal). It often doesn't seem to be a policy priority.
- Broken_Hippo 7y ago
  It most definitely isn't a priority: If it were, the US would look at other countries with lower recidivism rates and spend a bit more on things like mental health care, halfway houses, job placement, and so on.
  - ska 7y ago
    I'm hedging a bit because I don't have a good sense of how things are country wide, but there are some clear cases where it is not.
  - zoonosis 7y ago
    While I agree that the US prison system has many issues, recidivism rates can't really be compared between countries because of differences in time frames and rearrest vs re-conviction. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/
    - robocat 7y ago
      The issue is not about comparing recidivism rates. It is whether the US is looking at the results achieved by other countries and whether the US is trying to emulate successful strategies. As a sweeping generalisation, I see that the US says "that doesn't apply to us", always finding some weird excuse. Your invalid response is kind of an example.
      - wahern 7y ago
        How do you "[look] at the results achieved by other countries" if those results aren't reported? It's a fairly common sentiment that the U.S. penal system is heavily skewed toward retribution than reformation.[1] But identifying a problem on the one hand, and quantifying and addressing it on the other, are two entirely separate tasks. The latter is typically much more difficult.[2] [1] Justice Anton Scalia admitted as much in court, "Well, I thought that modern penology has abandoned that rehabilitation thing, and they--they no longer call prisons reformatories or--or whatever, and punishment is the--is the criterion now. Deserved punishment for crime." Oral argument, Miller v. Alabama, 2012. [2] Thus the quip, "Everybody complains about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." A reformulation of a Charles Dudley Warner quote, who, interestingly, also seems to have been an advocate for prison reform in his time, among many other civic and political reforms. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dudley_Warner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dudley_Warner and https://books.google.com/books?id=ktwRAAAAYAAJ&q=+%22little+done%22#v=snippet&q=%22little%20done%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=ktwRAAAAYAAJ&q=+%22little+....
- ta999999171 7y ago
  Why would it be, when your donors are the private prison owners?
- DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
  prison isn't designed for reintegrating back into society! If you look at this recent paper[1] by the lancet on "The psychological impact of quarantine and how to reduce it: rapid review of the evidence" (coincidentally it's about the corona virus) then you might notice that the effects of isolation are exactly what prisons are designed to do[2]. For quarantines it's a huge dilemma ofc. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30460-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
- michaelbrave 7y ago
  So long as there is a permanent criminal record and jobs can not hire people based on that no real change will come.
milesvp 7y ago
I saw a youtube video recently about the extensive use of cell phones to play old school runescape. Like it’s everywhere in every prison in the last couple of years. People not only play it but also use it’s currency for real world trading. Apparently violent behavior is down wherever people are playing. I’d love to find corroborating evidence for this, because I find it completely facinating.
- virgil_disgr4ce 7y ago
  Sounds like a solid Wired (or whoever) longread!
- westmeal 7y ago
  If I were in jail I'd love to play Runescape. It's pretty much the only time I'd actually enjoy Runescape.
- aaomidi 7y ago
  The sad thing about this is that it's still contraband and really bad for the prisoner if they're caught with it.
  - rwmurrayVT 7y ago
    In the federal system you get automatically moved up one security level. Minimum to low to medium to high. There are very, very few cell phones beyond a lot. There's probably 1 for every 5 people in a minimum.
pjc50 7y ago
They should definitely not be locked into expensive for profit comms, but they do need to be censored a bit in case they either harass victims or carry on organized crime.
somesortofsystm 7y ago
> Is it wrong that I find it a terrible thing that people aren't allowed computers with internet or cellphones in prison? I also think they should be allowed to grow their own weed.
- nefitty 7y ago
  Are you being facetious? If so, letting people access information which could help them establish some grounding in the outside world is not exactly a ridiculous idea.
  - somesortofsystm 7y ago
    No, I'm serious. Information wants to be free. So does weed.
- ta999999171 7y ago
  Alright, Rick.
saber6 7y ago
> Is it wrong that I find it a terrible thing that people aren't allowed computers with internet or cellphones in prison? Yes, you are wrong. These communication devices are taken away because the nature of the reason you are typically holding folks (violent crimes, gang activity, etc). > How do we expect people to join back to society when they can't use literally the number one most important thing? A lot of these people will not being rejoining society. They will spend the rest of their days in their cage. Let's not be rose-colored about this. > Maybe give them phones with no cameras and monitoring of use, but just nothing seems very inhumane. No thanks. They can use the monitored computer center.
pergadad 7y ago
I completely agree and at the same time see the other side: think of the typical drug kingpin or monster still directing 'business' and hits from prison. And you can't give phones to some and not to others because prisoners obviously interact with each other.

blackearl 7y ago

There are prisons charging per minute for calls and e-readers. I really doubt they would be humane enough to allow that

smokelegend 7y ago
I think this is a understatement... Every US prison/jail/detention center has a "pay-to-play" program administered by profit driven private companies who (IMU) overcharge for these basic services. $5.99 a minute is outrageous! I feel like these companies are allowed to prey on the most vulnerable people and no one cares because there not what society considers "good people".

ska 7y ago

In the US sometimes the evidence isn't clear that facilitating "join back to society" is an actual goal (it's often a stated goal). It often doesn't seem to be a policy priority.

Broken_Hippo 7y ago
It most definitely isn't a priority: If it were, the US would look at other countries with lower recidivism rates and spend a bit more on things like mental health care, halfway houses, job placement, and so on.
- ska 7y ago
  I'm hedging a bit because I don't have a good sense of how things are country wide, but there are some clear cases where it is not.
- zoonosis 7y ago
  While I agree that the US prison system has many issues, recidivism rates can't really be compared between countries because of differences in time frames and rearrest vs re-conviction. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/
  - robocat 7y ago
    The issue is not about comparing recidivism rates. It is whether the US is looking at the results achieved by other countries and whether the US is trying to emulate successful strategies. As a sweeping generalisation, I see that the US says "that doesn't apply to us", always finding some weird excuse. Your invalid response is kind of an example.
    - wahern 7y ago
      How do you "[look] at the results achieved by other countries" if those results aren't reported? It's a fairly common sentiment that the U.S. penal system is heavily skewed toward retribution than reformation.[1] But identifying a problem on the one hand, and quantifying and addressing it on the other, are two entirely separate tasks. The latter is typically much more difficult.[2] [1] Justice Anton Scalia admitted as much in court, "Well, I thought that modern penology has abandoned that rehabilitation thing, and they--they no longer call prisons reformatories or--or whatever, and punishment is the--is the criterion now. Deserved punishment for crime." Oral argument, Miller v. Alabama, 2012. [2] Thus the quip, "Everybody complains about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." A reformulation of a Charles Dudley Warner quote, who, interestingly, also seems to have been an advocate for prison reform in his time, among many other civic and political reforms. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dudley_Warner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dudley_Warner and https://books.google.com/books?id=ktwRAAAAYAAJ&q=+%22little+done%22#v=snippet&q=%22little%20done%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=ktwRAAAAYAAJ&q=+%22little+....
ta999999171 7y ago
Why would it be, when your donors are the private prison owners?
DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
prison isn't designed for reintegrating back into society! If you look at this recent paper[1] by the lancet on "The psychological impact of quarantine and how to reduce it: rapid review of the evidence" (coincidentally it's about the corona virus) then you might notice that the effects of isolation are exactly what prisons are designed to do[2]. For quarantines it's a huge dilemma ofc. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30460-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
michaelbrave 7y ago
So long as there is a permanent criminal record and jobs can not hire people based on that no real change will come.

milesvp 7y ago

I saw a youtube video recently about the extensive use of cell phones to play old school runescape. Like it’s everywhere in every prison in the last couple of years. People not only play it but also use it’s currency for real world trading. Apparently violent behavior is down wherever people are playing. I’d love to find corroborating evidence for this, because I find it completely facinating.

virgil_disgr4ce 7y ago
Sounds like a solid Wired (or whoever) longread!
westmeal 7y ago
If I were in jail I'd love to play Runescape. It's pretty much the only time I'd actually enjoy Runescape.
aaomidi 7y ago
The sad thing about this is that it's still contraband and really bad for the prisoner if they're caught with it.
- rwmurrayVT 7y ago
  In the federal system you get automatically moved up one security level. Minimum to low to medium to high. There are very, very few cell phones beyond a lot. There's probably 1 for every 5 people in a minimum.

pjc50 7y ago

They should definitely not be locked into expensive for profit comms, but they do need to be censored a bit in case they either harass victims or carry on organized crime.

somesortofsystm 7y ago

> Is it wrong that I find it a terrible thing that people aren't allowed computers with internet or cellphones in prison? I also think they should be allowed to grow their own weed.

nefitty 7y ago
Are you being facetious? If so, letting people access information which could help them establish some grounding in the outside world is not exactly a ridiculous idea.
- somesortofsystm 7y ago
  No, I'm serious. Information wants to be free. So does weed.
ta999999171 7y ago
Alright, Rick.

saber6 7y ago

> Is it wrong that I find it a terrible thing that people aren't allowed computers with internet or cellphones in prison? Yes, you are wrong. These communication devices are taken away because the nature of the reason you are typically holding folks (violent crimes, gang activity, etc). > How do we expect people to join back to society when they can't use literally the number one most important thing? A lot of these people will not being rejoining society. They will spend the rest of their days in their cage. Let's not be rose-colored about this. > Maybe give them phones with no cameras and monitoring of use, but just nothing seems very inhumane. No thanks. They can use the monitored computer center.

pergadad 7y ago

I completely agree and at the same time see the other side: think of the typical drug kingpin or monster still directing 'business' and hits from prison. And you can't give phones to some and not to others because prisoners obviously interact with each other.