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I'm sorry if the below sounds harsh, but even in the best of circumstances, I can't come up with a better angle on this. I don't think you are in a position to

by fsloth 7y ago

I'm sorry if the below sounds harsh, but even in the best of circumstances, I can't come up with a better angle on this. I don't think you are in a position to help your colleague. What you are suggesting would be a complex task even without the colleague having Visa. Not complex in the sense that asking raise is complex, but complex in the sense that you would affect 1. the behavior of your colleague 2. how your employer values your colleague 3. how your employer assigns raises. Your message does not give enough context to verify you could "coach" him. Coaching generally requires the experience of successes and failures in similar situations. If this is an unfamiliar situation to you, then you are in no position to coach him. It's well-meaning, but at the same time a bit condescending to think that you can assist him by some techniques picked up at an internet forum. In addition, based on what you told, you don't know if he already has asked for a raise, and been denied.

jlj 7y ago
Is OP is asking for help with their own situation? "I have a friend who..." is a common way to do that. It also brings light to a hard situation that many people may be ignorant of.
- fsloth 7y ago
  Yes. I don't deny anything you wrote, and there are other really helpful replies regarding strategies the colleague can use to work with his visa and employer status. But given so many unknowns, it's quite irresponsible to give any actionable advice to the specific end of getting a raise at the current employer. Without knowing all the cards (a lot of which the friend has), worst thing that could happen is that the friends contract is terminated, without him having a secured another position. If the intent was to increase the friends salary, then finding another employer would be the safest way to do it (without any other information).
tmpz22 7y ago
In fewer words, be careful you’re not paving the road to hell with good intentions. It’s pleasant to believe America is the land of financial mobility and endless opportunity, that software developers are “special” and universally receive hundreds of job offers each with superb salary - but that is not the case for everyone. In my sad experience deserving developers the world over are screwed over each and every day, particularly developers from India and Asia.
PostPost 7y ago
"but at the same time a bit condescending to think that you can assist him by some techniques picked up at an internet forum" I don't think it's condescending to show empathy for, and attempt to learn how to help a colleague. At worst, it's naive, because OP may not understand what a complex circumstance it can be - but I've worked with a number of Americans who do not understand work visas at all and have no intention of learning more. It's good to see OP asking; this industry could use more people looking out for each other.
- fsloth 7y ago
  I think you are correct, naive would have been a better word. I was not trying to shame empathy, but I felt it would be cruel not to point out the difficulty of the situation. "Move fast and break things" does not apply when you have only one shot. There are some situations (for example medical conditions) where a simple checklist approach can provide tremendous value. These are situations where most of the variables are fairly known, and none of the steps are likely to have bad consequences. I don't think there is a good checklist unless someone has been in the exact position as the friend (same industry, same skill base, same visa, etc) and can come up with helpfull pointers.
  - PostPost 7y ago
    Maybe OP's use of the word "Coach" instead of "help" is not great here, but I read this as a coworker trying to help an under-appreciated colleague. I do not think promotions or raises are a "one shot" situation, and I don't think having an advocate on your team is going to result in bad consequences, not unless they force the issue or management is truly awful. As to coaching/checklists - I don't think someone has to be in the exact same situation to help. Every good coach starts from zero coaching experience, and it's easy to advocate on behalf of a teammate. I've had a lot of help from lots of people with different backgrounds, skills, etc. in my career - I would hate for them to think they couldn't help me because they haven't been in the exact same position.
    - laughingbovine 7y ago
karim 7y ago
ex-H1-B employee here. I think your advice is well-meaning but far off the mark. There's two reasons for that: - first, US visas are complicated but not that complicated. Plenty of people have been in that situation before and there is a lot of advice but online and offline about how to deal with this. Coaching someone doesn't necessarily mean giving them a play-by-play of how to do things – you can point them to the right resource. - second, it's possible that OP's colleague simply feels trapped and just hasn't considered that it was possible to improve their situation. Even a small nudge from OP could provide a huge improvement in their colleague's life. @OP – thank you for doing this.
- fsloth 7y ago
  Yes, I agree with what you wrote. Still, the situation is non-trivial. I do hope OP and his friend find a better outcome for the friend (if the friend so likes).
ShowMeTheRupees 7y ago
There's a whole lot about this comment that I think is flawed, and off the mark, but I think that other commenters have already raised those points in a better and more complete ways than I have. I will say, however, I think we have a very different viewpoint on what constitutes condescension.

by fsloth 7y ago

jlj 7y ago

Is OP is asking for help with their own situation? "I have a friend who..." is a common way to do that. It also brings light to a hard situation that many people may be ignorant of.

fsloth 7y ago
Yes. I don't deny anything you wrote, and there are other really helpful replies regarding strategies the colleague can use to work with his visa and employer status. But given so many unknowns, it's quite irresponsible to give any actionable advice to the specific end of getting a raise at the current employer. Without knowing all the cards (a lot of which the friend has), worst thing that could happen is that the friends contract is terminated, without him having a secured another position. If the intent was to increase the friends salary, then finding another employer would be the safest way to do it (without any other information).

tmpz22 7y ago

In fewer words, be careful you’re not paving the road to hell with good intentions. It’s pleasant to believe America is the land of financial mobility and endless opportunity, that software developers are “special” and universally receive hundreds of job offers each with superb salary - but that is not the case for everyone. In my sad experience deserving developers the world over are screwed over each and every day, particularly developers from India and Asia.

PostPost 7y ago

"but at the same time a bit condescending to think that you can assist him by some techniques picked up at an internet forum" I don't think it's condescending to show empathy for, and attempt to learn how to help a colleague. At worst, it's naive, because OP may not understand what a complex circumstance it can be - but I've worked with a number of Americans who do not understand work visas at all and have no intention of learning more. It's good to see OP asking; this industry could use more people looking out for each other.

fsloth 7y ago
I think you are correct, naive would have been a better word. I was not trying to shame empathy, but I felt it would be cruel not to point out the difficulty of the situation. "Move fast and break things" does not apply when you have only one shot. There are some situations (for example medical conditions) where a simple checklist approach can provide tremendous value. These are situations where most of the variables are fairly known, and none of the steps are likely to have bad consequences. I don't think there is a good checklist unless someone has been in the exact position as the friend (same industry, same skill base, same visa, etc) and can come up with helpfull pointers.
- PostPost 7y ago
  Maybe OP's use of the word "Coach" instead of "help" is not great here, but I read this as a coworker trying to help an under-appreciated colleague. I do not think promotions or raises are a "one shot" situation, and I don't think having an advocate on your team is going to result in bad consequences, not unless they force the issue or management is truly awful. As to coaching/checklists - I don't think someone has to be in the exact same situation to help. Every good coach starts from zero coaching experience, and it's easy to advocate on behalf of a teammate. I've had a lot of help from lots of people with different backgrounds, skills, etc. in my career - I would hate for them to think they couldn't help me because they haven't been in the exact same position.
  - laughingbovine 7y ago

karim 7y ago

ex-H1-B employee here. I think your advice is well-meaning but far off the mark. There's two reasons for that: - first, US visas are complicated but not that complicated. Plenty of people have been in that situation before and there is a lot of advice but online and offline about how to deal with this. Coaching someone doesn't necessarily mean giving them a play-by-play of how to do things – you can point them to the right resource. - second, it's possible that OP's colleague simply feels trapped and just hasn't considered that it was possible to improve their situation. Even a small nudge from OP could provide a huge improvement in their colleague's life. @OP – thank you for doing this.

fsloth 7y ago
Yes, I agree with what you wrote. Still, the situation is non-trivial. I do hope OP and his friend find a better outcome for the friend (if the friend so likes).

ShowMeTheRupees 7y ago

There's a whole lot about this comment that I think is flawed, and off the mark, but I think that other commenters have already raised those points in a better and more complete ways than I have. I will say, however, I think we have a very different viewpoint on what constitutes condescension.