4 ms·

That's one of those really silly rules, isn't it?

keiferski 16y ago
Eh? It's a pretty fundamental part of usability, design, and business in general. Blaming your users is never a good idea.
- Locke1689 16y ago
  Careful. If a user bypasses a warning dialog from the operating system to run a program they download from the Internet, is it still the OS's fault if it is malware? Sometimes providing a perfect user experience is equivalent to solving the halting problem and not recognizing this is as big a problem as believing that all problems are the user's fault.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - keiferski 16y ago
    An exception can be found for every rule, in just about anything. Nitpicking specific examples and then saying "oh, well this disproves it" proves nothing. 99 out of a 100 times, blaming the user isn't the right move. For the sake of brevity, I used ever and always.
    - Locke1689 16y ago
      Ah, but we're discussing a specific domain, security, where I think "the user is always right" is often wrong. Requiring a user to memorize 10+ essentially random characters, for example, is an awful user experience, but it is required for security purposes.
      - lsc 16y ago
        http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_your.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_you... Personally, I prefer keys (long, randomly-generated passwords stored in a file or device) to passwords, but I don't know of any reasonable way to authenticate to a webapp with a key.
        yloiseau 16y ago
        foaf+ssl ? :)
  - Joakal 16y ago
    Yes. It's likely a 'Cry wolf' issue where the OS sends warning dialogs about every download, even safe ones. So the user thinks it's similar file so it's no problem. Users had complaints about Windows UAC doing this for every instance (not just downloads).
    - Locke1689 16y ago
      It's likely a 'Cry wolf' issue where the OS sends warning dialogs about every download, even safe ones. Right. This misunderstanding was the entire point of my post. Distinguishing between the "safe" downloads and the "unsafe" downloads is an instance of solving the halting problem. Also, I was thinking of the Chrome "Run Application" dialog, not the UAC.
- nagnatron 16y ago
  Yes but ever and always is a bit over the top.

Eh? It's a pretty fundamental part of usability, design, and business in general. Blaming your users is never a good idea.

Locke1689 16y ago
Careful. If a user bypasses a warning dialog from the operating system to run a program they download from the Internet, is it still the OS's fault if it is malware? Sometimes providing a perfect user experience is equivalent to solving the halting problem and not recognizing this is as big a problem as believing that all problems are the user's fault.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- keiferski 16y ago
  An exception can be found for every rule, in just about anything. Nitpicking specific examples and then saying "oh, well this disproves it" proves nothing. 99 out of a 100 times, blaming the user isn't the right move. For the sake of brevity, I used ever and always.
  - Locke1689 16y ago
    Ah, but we're discussing a specific domain, security, where I think "the user is always right" is often wrong. Requiring a user to memorize 10+ essentially random characters, for example, is an awful user experience, but it is required for security purposes.
    - lsc 16y ago
      http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_your.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_you... Personally, I prefer keys (long, randomly-generated passwords stored in a file or device) to passwords, but I don't know of any reasonable way to authenticate to a webapp with a key.
      - yloiseau 16y ago
        foaf+ssl ? :)
- Joakal 16y ago
  Yes. It's likely a 'Cry wolf' issue where the OS sends warning dialogs about every download, even safe ones. So the user thinks it's similar file so it's no problem. Users had complaints about Windows UAC doing this for every instance (not just downloads).
  - Locke1689 16y ago
    It's likely a 'Cry wolf' issue where the OS sends warning dialogs about every download, even safe ones. Right. This misunderstanding was the entire point of my post. Distinguishing between the "safe" downloads and the "unsafe" downloads is an instance of solving the halting problem. Also, I was thinking of the Chrome "Run Application" dialog, not the UAC.
nagnatron 16y ago
Yes but ever and always is a bit over the top.