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How to Design a Replacement for C++(2010)

4 points by fctorial 7y ago

fctorial 7y ago
> Most modern languages are integrated with their standard library - ie. some syntax secretly calls into functions Does rust do that in any way?
- anonsivalley652 7y ago
  Here, let me Google that for you: https://stackoverflow.com/a/41213128 https://stackoverflow.com/a/41213128
  - fctorial 7y ago
    That answer is about the syntax extentions and compiler plugins. How do these relate to this question?
- fiedzia 7y ago
  No, you can use Rust without its stdlib. #![no_std] is a crate-level attribute that indicates that the crate will link to the core-crate instead of the std-crate. The libcore crate in turn is a platform-agnostic subset of the std crate which makes no assumptions about the system the program will run on. As such, it provides APIs for language primitives like floats, strings and slices, as well as APIs that expose processor features like atomic operations and SIMD instructions. However it lacks APIs for anything that involves platform integration. Because of these properties no_std and libcore code can be used for any kind of bootstrapping (stage 0) code like bootloaders, firmware or kernels. https://rust-embedded.github.io/book/intro/no-std.html https://rust-embedded.github.io/book/intro/no-std.html
fulafel 7y ago
Sounds like this is about making a C compatible language. But actually most uses of C++ have been, and continue to be, replaced by languages that are not C compatible. It's probably not useful to think about a generally workable swap-out replacement for C++ the language too much, since there could be no single language that fit the same odd set of niches but was still usefully different.
- anonsivalley652 7y ago
  The D language has entered the chat. The emperor has new clothes now, all is well. ;-) Yeah. Too often people complain they want a replacement, but then they want it to be a feature-complete super-set of what they didn't like too... trying to have it both ways and being oblivious to their internal inconsistency. Objective C++ is the only mainstream, feature-complete superset of C++ that I know of. (I'm sure there are others.) Gluing two languages together is a feat, but does it solve anything? I think FFI C interfaces are the most universal heterogenous interoperability approach, rather than trying to figure out how to mangle names or pass objects that can have funky vtables.
anonsivalley652 7y ago
No GC: Rust Other no GC are oldies: Ada, Pascal, Forth, COBOL (not OO-COBOL), ObjC w/o ARC, PL/I GC: D, Go Non-embeddable GC: Pony, Crystal GC claimed faster than Zulu C4 (JVM fork) and BEAM/HiPE.
nayuki 7y ago
Less than a decade after the article was written, I'm pleased to see that Rust fulfills at least 15 items out of his 19-point wish list. And the unfulfilled items are questionable anyway, like "do not remove the cpp preprocessor", "implicit pass-by-reference", and "typesafe varargs".

4 points by fctorial 7y ago

> Most modern languages are integrated with their standard library - ie. some syntax secretly calls into functions Does rust do that in any way?

anonsivalley652 7y ago
Here, let me Google that for you: https://stackoverflow.com/a/41213128 https://stackoverflow.com/a/41213128
- fctorial 7y ago
  That answer is about the syntax extentions and compiler plugins. How do these relate to this question?
fiedzia 7y ago
No, you can use Rust without its stdlib. #![no_std] is a crate-level attribute that indicates that the crate will link to the core-crate instead of the std-crate. The libcore crate in turn is a platform-agnostic subset of the std crate which makes no assumptions about the system the program will run on. As such, it provides APIs for language primitives like floats, strings and slices, as well as APIs that expose processor features like atomic operations and SIMD instructions. However it lacks APIs for anything that involves platform integration. Because of these properties no_std and libcore code can be used for any kind of bootstrapping (stage 0) code like bootloaders, firmware or kernels. https://rust-embedded.github.io/book/intro/no-std.html https://rust-embedded.github.io/book/intro/no-std.html

fulafel 7y ago

Sounds like this is about making a C compatible language. But actually most uses of C++ have been, and continue to be, replaced by languages that are not C compatible. It's probably not useful to think about a generally workable swap-out replacement for C++ the language too much, since there could be no single language that fit the same odd set of niches but was still usefully different.

anonsivalley652 7y ago
The D language has entered the chat. The emperor has new clothes now, all is well. ;-) Yeah. Too often people complain they want a replacement, but then they want it to be a feature-complete super-set of what they didn't like too... trying to have it both ways and being oblivious to their internal inconsistency. Objective C++ is the only mainstream, feature-complete superset of C++ that I know of. (I'm sure there are others.) Gluing two languages together is a feat, but does it solve anything? I think FFI C interfaces are the most universal heterogenous interoperability approach, rather than trying to figure out how to mangle names or pass objects that can have funky vtables.

anonsivalley652 7y ago

No GC: Rust Other no GC are oldies: Ada, Pascal, Forth, COBOL (not OO-COBOL), ObjC w/o ARC, PL/I GC: D, Go Non-embeddable GC: Pony, Crystal GC claimed faster than Zulu C4 (JVM fork) and BEAM/HiPE.

nayuki 7y ago

Less than a decade after the article was written, I'm pleased to see that Rust fulfills at least 15 items out of his 19-point wish list. And the unfulfilled items are questionable anyway, like "do not remove the cpp preprocessor", "implicit pass-by-reference", and "typesafe varargs".