4 ms·

A more generous interpretation of comment you're replying to: It's not that guns and ammo are useful for resisting your local government. They're saying that in

A more generous interpretation of comment you're replying to: It's not that guns and ammo are useful for resisting your local government. They're saying that in the event of catastrophe, it's not a smart bet to rely on local government for protection from human chaos (like looters after your food).

Intermernet 7y ago
Who causes the degradation of society more? The starving person looting, or the "prepared" person shooting? I don't have an answer for this, but it's something worth keeping in the back of your mind when discussing theoretical catastrophes.
pinkfoot 7y ago
I didn't think my comment was ungenerous - apologies. What I mean is that evidence shows that when a society collapses, the corrupt and evil will explicitly use the state's monopoly on violence to take what you are trying to defend. Typically they juice this by exploiting local grievances to de-ligitimise your claim to your property and co-opt the local law enforcement with promises of future gains. Then they will appear at your homestead WITH the local enforcement - who will do nothing when the mob takes yours assets. At one level this is to discourage you and increase your sense of isolation - to get you to just abandon your assets and leave. At which point they move onto the next property/resource owner. However, at another level they WANT to to fight back - with firearms preferably. Not only will this still be deemed illegal (under laws passed by the old functioning society) but hopefully (from their perspective) you injure or kill one of the riled-up mob - further de-legitimising you. At this point, the co-opted law enforcement will step in, arrest you, etc. Zimbabwe, the Balkans, and Indonesia are text-book examples. When society fails violently, there really is no hope. I wish it wasn't thus, but is is and will be.
- Ghjklov 7y ago
  I like to think that police and military personnel have family and friends they care about too, and aren't soulless robots ready to gun down their fellow men and women who they took vows to serve when they joined the force at the command of a suit in Washington. Think, if you were them, what kind of world would you like you, your family, and friends to live in? I find that enough of them would make the right decision that if the PEOPLE fought back, they would have a winning chance. Think about the rest of the world too. Is Russia going to sit back and do nothing, when they could be funding/supporting those rebels against the U.S. government instead? AND they can do it from the moral high ground too, since they're helping the oppressed rebels against a totalitarian government. Extra power. The U.S. was founded on rebellion. And I believe enough Americans would readily backstab an illegitimate U.S. government (one that has stopped serving its people and instead serves itself) in pursuit of good.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - pinkfoot 7y ago
    1. s/I like to think/I like to HOPE/ FTFY 2.The U.S. was founded on rebellion. So was Somalia. Its not a sufficient reason to protect you from the failure mode I explained above.

Intermernet 7y ago

Who causes the degradation of society more? The starving person looting, or the "prepared" person shooting? I don't have an answer for this, but it's something worth keeping in the back of your mind when discussing theoretical catastrophes.

pinkfoot 7y ago

I didn't think my comment was ungenerous - apologies. What I mean is that evidence shows that when a society collapses, the corrupt and evil will explicitly use the state's monopoly on violence to take what you are trying to defend. Typically they juice this by exploiting local grievances to de-ligitimise your claim to your property and co-opt the local law enforcement with promises of future gains. Then they will appear at your homestead WITH the local enforcement - who will do nothing when the mob takes yours assets. At one level this is to discourage you and increase your sense of isolation - to get you to just abandon your assets and leave. At which point they move onto the next property/resource owner. However, at another level they WANT to to fight back - with firearms preferably. Not only will this still be deemed illegal (under laws passed by the old functioning society) but hopefully (from their perspective) you injure or kill one of the riled-up mob - further de-legitimising you. At this point, the co-opted law enforcement will step in, arrest you, etc. Zimbabwe, the Balkans, and Indonesia are text-book examples. When society fails violently, there really is no hope. I wish it wasn't thus, but is is and will be.

Ghjklov 7y ago
I like to think that police and military personnel have family and friends they care about too, and aren't soulless robots ready to gun down their fellow men and women who they took vows to serve when they joined the force at the command of a suit in Washington. Think, if you were them, what kind of world would you like you, your family, and friends to live in? I find that enough of them would make the right decision that if the PEOPLE fought back, they would have a winning chance. Think about the rest of the world too. Is Russia going to sit back and do nothing, when they could be funding/supporting those rebels against the U.S. government instead? AND they can do it from the moral high ground too, since they're helping the oppressed rebels against a totalitarian government. Extra power. The U.S. was founded on rebellion. And I believe enough Americans would readily backstab an illegitimate U.S. government (one that has stopped serving its people and instead serves itself) in pursuit of good.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  1. s/I like to think/I like to HOPE/ FTFY 2.The U.S. was founded on rebellion. So was Somalia. Its not a sufficient reason to protect you from the failure mode I explained above.