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Well, none of them are the weirdo doomsday prepper types who (as you say) seem to almost look forward to societal collapse in a creepy, power-fantasy way. For t

by chao- 7y ago

Well, none of them are the weirdo doomsday prepper types who (as you say) seem to almost look forward to societal collapse in a creepy, power-fantasy way. For these friends and family, it is just a commonly-assumed, shared ethos. They do the same every time a hurricane draws near their part of the gulf coast, and are the first to try and help neighbors, friends or even strangers who need it if those folks are in need. Stocking up in advance of $WIDELY_REPORTED_THREAT is not something you really question, because it is what you, and everyone you know, has always done for as long as you can remember. Sometimes it has even come in handy and helped people.

nl 7y ago
Stocking up on ammo seems very weird for someone outside the US.
- FortCollinsDev 7y ago
  It seems very weird for someone inside the US.
  - nitrogen 7y ago
    It seems a little weird for someone from the semi-rural US, because you probably already had ammo on hand.
    - LyndsySimon 7y ago
      I admit I “panic bought” some ammo. It’s for a practical reason, though - my preferred manufacturer for .300 AAC is Australian, and I figure there is at least a chance that the economic disruptions will impact its availability. If so, I picked up as much as I’d normally expect to shoot in the next six months.
      - distances 7y ago
        Is owning guns and ammo "for shooting" a hobby throughout the country or just in the more rural areas? I'm wondering what facilities are there for something like that in urban environments.
        Pinckney 7y ago
        Indoor range exist, but they're often expensive and poorly ventilated. People certainly use them, and some indoor ranges even host USPSA or IDPA matches. You'll want access to an outside range for most forms of recreational rifle shooting.
        nitrogen 7y ago
        The old movie Beverly Hills Cop shows a posh gun club in Beverly Hills, but I have no idea if it was or is there.
        bart_spoon 7y ago
        There absolutely are. I've only ever lived in Urban and Suburban environments in the US for the last 10 years, and the furthest I've ever been from a gun range is probably 15 minutes.
        LyndsySimon 7y ago
        Ranges are far easier to find in urban areas. I live in a town of about 10k, and there is only one pistol range nearby. It opened last year. Before that, you had to either have land or have access to land to shoot. Hearing gunfire isn’t at all uncommon here. I live right on the edge of city limits, and I doubt a day goes by without being able to hear someone shoot if I’m sitting on my back porch. I totally get that it’s a cultural difference, but it’s very common throughout the US. The only exceptions are very dense urban areas, really. I’ve heard it said that there are two kinds of places in the US, and they’re categorized by what sound makes you worry. In some places, if you hear an emergency vehicle’s siren you ignore it, but get concerned if you hear gunfire. In others, you ignore the sound of gunfire but get concerned if you hear an emergency vehicle. I definitely live in the latter kind of place.
- spaginal 7y ago
  Ammunition is a durable good as long as it’s kept dry and stays for years. In situations you can bargain with it, use it, and in a best case scenario nothing happens and you simply go shoot it for fun. In a worst case scenario... well it’s pretty self explanatory at that point.
  - watwut 7y ago
    I don't find worst case there to be self explanatory. People put general "self explanatory" in there, cause they dont want to say what they intend to do with those guns. I don't recall armed individuals with whatever they stocked for themselves to make difference when real issues happen. What made difference were organized trained ideological groups with those arms. So, in that case, I am really interested to know which ideological group are those people stocking for - and against who they intend to use those guns. That is why it dont make sense to stock some ammo in abstract and why the expression is slimmy.
    - totalZero 7y ago
      Huh? During the LA riots, Korean shopkeepers were successful in using guns to deter rioters from looting their businesses.
- filoleg 7y ago
  Well, if you are not able to own a firearm, then yeah, stockpiling ammo would definitely look weird.
  - distances 7y ago
    In most countries you definitely can own a gun as long as you have some suitable grounds for that, likely hobby in hunting or range shooting (maybe requiring a club membership). Those just aren't super common hobbies. Owning a gun just for self-defence isn't generally allowed or needed, and would of course be counterproductive anyway as using lethal force would likely land you in much deeper trouble than the looter would face. I'd end with "rightfully so" but I do realize there are deep cultural differences regarding this point.
    - infinite8s 7y ago
      > Owning a gun just for self-defence isn't generally allowed or needed, and would of course be counterproductive anyway as using lethal force would likely land you in much deeper trouble than the looter would face. I'd end with "rightfully so" but I do realize there are deep cultural differences regarding this point. Not in certain US states (look up "stand-your-ground" laws).
      - distances 7y ago
        My reply to the parent was for providing out-of-US view about the circumstances for owning a gun.
    - filoleg 7y ago
      I agree with you, but that's exactly what I was talking about. In a place where majority of the people cannot just go and buy a firearm without getting a bunch of special permits and club memberships (with gun ownership being pretty rare to begin with), it would definitely seem weird to stockpile ammo.
- cmdshiftf4 7y ago
  What's your plan if something does happen, be it this virus, a war or other? Sit back and wait for the state to save you? I'm not American myself but the lack of self-reliance exhibited by non-Americans, particularly Europeans, is sometimes bewildering.
  - pinkfoot 7y ago
    Those who have lived through a failed state know that no amount of personal fire-power will protect you from a ruling-party politician with the local constabulary in his pocket. But if it makes you feel better…
    - eric-hu 7y ago
      A more generous interpretation of comment you're replying to: It's not that guns and ammo are useful for resisting your local government. They're saying that in the event of catastrophe, it's not a smart bet to rely on local government for protection from human chaos (like looters after your food).
      - Intermernet 7y ago
        Who causes the degradation of society more? The starving person looting, or the "prepared" person shooting? I don't have an answer for this, but it's something worth keeping in the back of your mind when discussing theoretical catastrophes.
      - pinkfoot 7y ago
        I didn't think my comment was ungenerous - apologies. What I mean is that evidence shows that when a society collapses, the corrupt and evil will explicitly use the state's monopoly on violence to take what you are trying to defend. Typically they juice this by exploiting local grievances to de-ligitimise your claim to your property and co-opt the local law enforcement with promises of future gains. Then they will appear at your homestead WITH the local enforcement - who will do nothing when the mob takes yours assets. At one level this is to discourage you and increase your sense of isolation - to get you to just abandon your assets and leave. At which point they move onto the next property/resource owner. However, at another level they WANT to to fight back - with firearms preferably. Not only will this still be deemed illegal (under laws passed by the old functioning society) but hopefully (from their perspective) you injure or kill one of the riled-up mob - further de-legitimising you. At this point, the co-opted law enforcement will step in, arrest you, etc. Zimbabwe, the Balkans, and Indonesia are text-book examples. When society fails violently, there really is no hope. I wish it wasn't thus, but is is and will be.
- downerending 7y ago
  We're also stocking up on booze, weed, and meth, if that makes it seem less weird.

by chao- 7y ago

nl 7y ago

Stocking up on ammo seems very weird for someone outside the US.

FortCollinsDev 7y ago
It seems very weird for someone inside the US.
- nitrogen 7y ago
  It seems a little weird for someone from the semi-rural US, because you probably already had ammo on hand.
  - LyndsySimon 7y ago
    I admit I “panic bought” some ammo. It’s for a practical reason, though - my preferred manufacturer for .300 AAC is Australian, and I figure there is at least a chance that the economic disruptions will impact its availability. If so, I picked up as much as I’d normally expect to shoot in the next six months.
    - distances 7y ago
      Is owning guns and ammo "for shooting" a hobby throughout the country or just in the more rural areas? I'm wondering what facilities are there for something like that in urban environments.
      - Pinckney 7y ago
        Indoor range exist, but they're often expensive and poorly ventilated. People certainly use them, and some indoor ranges even host USPSA or IDPA matches. You'll want access to an outside range for most forms of recreational rifle shooting.
      - nitrogen 7y ago
        The old movie Beverly Hills Cop shows a posh gun club in Beverly Hills, but I have no idea if it was or is there.
      - bart_spoon 7y ago
        There absolutely are. I've only ever lived in Urban and Suburban environments in the US for the last 10 years, and the furthest I've ever been from a gun range is probably 15 minutes.
      - LyndsySimon 7y ago
        Ranges are far easier to find in urban areas. I live in a town of about 10k, and there is only one pistol range nearby. It opened last year. Before that, you had to either have land or have access to land to shoot. Hearing gunfire isn’t at all uncommon here. I live right on the edge of city limits, and I doubt a day goes by without being able to hear someone shoot if I’m sitting on my back porch. I totally get that it’s a cultural difference, but it’s very common throughout the US. The only exceptions are very dense urban areas, really. I’ve heard it said that there are two kinds of places in the US, and they’re categorized by what sound makes you worry. In some places, if you hear an emergency vehicle’s siren you ignore it, but get concerned if you hear gunfire. In others, you ignore the sound of gunfire but get concerned if you hear an emergency vehicle. I definitely live in the latter kind of place.
spaginal 7y ago
Ammunition is a durable good as long as it’s kept dry and stays for years. In situations you can bargain with it, use it, and in a best case scenario nothing happens and you simply go shoot it for fun. In a worst case scenario... well it’s pretty self explanatory at that point.
- watwut 7y ago
  I don't find worst case there to be self explanatory. People put general "self explanatory" in there, cause they dont want to say what they intend to do with those guns. I don't recall armed individuals with whatever they stocked for themselves to make difference when real issues happen. What made difference were organized trained ideological groups with those arms. So, in that case, I am really interested to know which ideological group are those people stocking for - and against who they intend to use those guns. That is why it dont make sense to stock some ammo in abstract and why the expression is slimmy.
  - totalZero 7y ago
    Huh? During the LA riots, Korean shopkeepers were successful in using guns to deter rioters from looting their businesses.
filoleg 7y ago
Well, if you are not able to own a firearm, then yeah, stockpiling ammo would definitely look weird.
- distances 7y ago
  In most countries you definitely can own a gun as long as you have some suitable grounds for that, likely hobby in hunting or range shooting (maybe requiring a club membership). Those just aren't super common hobbies. Owning a gun just for self-defence isn't generally allowed or needed, and would of course be counterproductive anyway as using lethal force would likely land you in much deeper trouble than the looter would face. I'd end with "rightfully so" but I do realize there are deep cultural differences regarding this point.
  - infinite8s 7y ago
    > Owning a gun just for self-defence isn't generally allowed or needed, and would of course be counterproductive anyway as using lethal force would likely land you in much deeper trouble than the looter would face. I'd end with "rightfully so" but I do realize there are deep cultural differences regarding this point. Not in certain US states (look up "stand-your-ground" laws).
    - distances 7y ago
      My reply to the parent was for providing out-of-US view about the circumstances for owning a gun.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    I agree with you, but that's exactly what I was talking about. In a place where majority of the people cannot just go and buy a firearm without getting a bunch of special permits and club memberships (with gun ownership being pretty rare to begin with), it would definitely seem weird to stockpile ammo.
cmdshiftf4 7y ago
What's your plan if something does happen, be it this virus, a war or other? Sit back and wait for the state to save you? I'm not American myself but the lack of self-reliance exhibited by non-Americans, particularly Europeans, is sometimes bewildering.
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  Those who have lived through a failed state know that no amount of personal fire-power will protect you from a ruling-party politician with the local constabulary in his pocket. But if it makes you feel better…
  - eric-hu 7y ago
    A more generous interpretation of comment you're replying to: It's not that guns and ammo are useful for resisting your local government. They're saying that in the event of catastrophe, it's not a smart bet to rely on local government for protection from human chaos (like looters after your food).
    - Intermernet 7y ago
      Who causes the degradation of society more? The starving person looting, or the "prepared" person shooting? I don't have an answer for this, but it's something worth keeping in the back of your mind when discussing theoretical catastrophes.
    - pinkfoot 7y ago
      I didn't think my comment was ungenerous - apologies. What I mean is that evidence shows that when a society collapses, the corrupt and evil will explicitly use the state's monopoly on violence to take what you are trying to defend. Typically they juice this by exploiting local grievances to de-ligitimise your claim to your property and co-opt the local law enforcement with promises of future gains. Then they will appear at your homestead WITH the local enforcement - who will do nothing when the mob takes yours assets. At one level this is to discourage you and increase your sense of isolation - to get you to just abandon your assets and leave. At which point they move onto the next property/resource owner. However, at another level they WANT to to fight back - with firearms preferably. Not only will this still be deemed illegal (under laws passed by the old functioning society) but hopefully (from their perspective) you injure or kill one of the riled-up mob - further de-legitimising you. At this point, the co-opted law enforcement will step in, arrest you, etc. Zimbabwe, the Balkans, and Indonesia are text-book examples. When society fails violently, there really is no hope. I wish it wasn't thus, but is is and will be.
downerending 7y ago
We're also stocking up on booze, weed, and meth, if that makes it seem less weird.