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The author also seems to really, really want C++ to be Python, despite that they're completely different languages for completely different purposes that make c

The author also seems to really, really want C++ to be Python, despite that they're completely different languages for completely different purposes that make completely different sets of design tradeoffs. In that respect, the author probably wouldn't be happy with modern C++, either. For example, C++ is never going to be a garbage-collected language (by default, at least). Modern C++ gives you better tools to deal with that, but the core design concerns that make C++ the way it is haven't gone away.

Someone 7y ago
I’m not aware any exist, but implementations of C++11 can have garbage collection by default. https://isocpp.org/wiki/faq/cpp11-library#gc-abi https://isocpp.org/wiki/faq/cpp11-library#gc-abi: ”Garbage collection (automatic recycling of unreferenced regions of memory) is optional in C++; that is, a garbage collector is not a compulsory part of an implementation. However, C++11 provides a definition of what a GC can do if one is used and an ABI (Application Binary Interface) to help control its actions.”
- deaddodo 7y ago
  That's not "by default". The compiler doesn't provide it, the language provides for you as the developer using the language to implement your own (or use a third-party) GC and utilize it. D and Rust both offer the same amenities and are not "garbage collected" languages.
  - kllrnohj 7y ago
    > D and Rust both offer the same amenities and are not "garbage collected" languages. Rust isn't but D is absolutely a garbage collected language. The GC is provided by default and expected to exist. https://dlang.org/overview.html#resource https://dlang.org/overview.html#resource & https://dlang.org/spec/garbage.html https://dlang.org/spec/garbage.html There's a non-GC'd subset of D, though. That would be the BetterC subset https://dlang.org/spec/betterc.html https://dlang.org/spec/betterc.html
    - bachmeier 7y ago
      I think it's more accurate to say D's GC is expected to exist if you want to use the full language. That's sensible, because the option to use GC makes some things practical that otherwise wouldn't be. You can disable or simply avoid the GC, and you can add @nogc attributes to your code if you want to be certain there won't be any GC allocations. BetterC certainly does guarantee there's no GC, but that's a limited (for now at least) subset of the full language.
  - dfox 7y ago
    The quote seems to be about the compiler/environment being permitted to offer GC, ie. permits you to write C++ implementation on top of some GC'd runtime. It does not say anything about you as a language user having enough introspection capabilities to write an GC. As a side note it seems that one can (ab)use smart pointers enough to build essentially working tracing GC on top of that, I've seen that done and well, the performance is horrible, obviously.
pjmlp 7y ago
Actually C++11 introduced a GC API.
- gpderetta 7y ago
  It seems to me that just a couple of do nothing placeholders were added to please Hans Boehm and get him to work on the c++ memory model :).
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Even so, there are the .NET, Unreal and COM/UWP programming models as well, which while not taking advantage of C++11 GC, do bring a GC into C++ world. :)

Someone 7y ago

I’m not aware any exist, but implementations of C++11 can have garbage collection by default. https://isocpp.org/wiki/faq/cpp11-library#gc-abi https://isocpp.org/wiki/faq/cpp11-library#gc-abi: ”Garbage collection (automatic recycling of unreferenced regions of memory) is optional in C++; that is, a garbage collector is not a compulsory part of an implementation. However, C++11 provides a definition of what a GC can do if one is used and an ABI (Application Binary Interface) to help control its actions.”

deaddodo 7y ago
That's not "by default". The compiler doesn't provide it, the language provides for you as the developer using the language to implement your own (or use a third-party) GC and utilize it. D and Rust both offer the same amenities and are not "garbage collected" languages.
- kllrnohj 7y ago
  > D and Rust both offer the same amenities and are not "garbage collected" languages. Rust isn't but D is absolutely a garbage collected language. The GC is provided by default and expected to exist. https://dlang.org/overview.html#resource https://dlang.org/overview.html#resource & https://dlang.org/spec/garbage.html https://dlang.org/spec/garbage.html There's a non-GC'd subset of D, though. That would be the BetterC subset https://dlang.org/spec/betterc.html https://dlang.org/spec/betterc.html
  - bachmeier 7y ago
    I think it's more accurate to say D's GC is expected to exist if you want to use the full language. That's sensible, because the option to use GC makes some things practical that otherwise wouldn't be. You can disable or simply avoid the GC, and you can add @nogc attributes to your code if you want to be certain there won't be any GC allocations. BetterC certainly does guarantee there's no GC, but that's a limited (for now at least) subset of the full language.
- dfox 7y ago
  The quote seems to be about the compiler/environment being permitted to offer GC, ie. permits you to write C++ implementation on top of some GC'd runtime. It does not say anything about you as a language user having enough introspection capabilities to write an GC. As a side note it seems that one can (ab)use smart pointers enough to build essentially working tracing GC on top of that, I've seen that done and well, the performance is horrible, obviously.

pjmlp 7y ago

Actually C++11 introduced a GC API.

gpderetta 7y ago
It seems to me that just a couple of do nothing placeholders were added to please Hans Boehm and get him to work on the c++ memory model :).
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Even so, there are the .NET, Unreal and COM/UWP programming models as well, which while not taking advantage of C++11 GC, do bring a GC into C++ world. :)