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> As another example, a prison in Illinois was under 23 years of permanent lockdown, meaning that all inmates were in isolation for 23 years. You do refer to U

> As another example, a prison in Illinois was under 23 years of permanent lockdown, meaning that all inmates were in isolation for 23 years. You do refer to USP Marion, Illinois, which was the US's Supermax prison during that time. They held the most dangerous, violent prisoners, and of course, kept them locked down for security reasons. [1] I spent a year there after they downgraded it to a medium security facility. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Penitentiary,_Marion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Penitentiary,_Ma...

jolmg 7y ago
> They held the most dangerous, violent prisoners, and of course, kept them locked down for security reasons. How valid is that argument? It seems like you could use it to justify doing anything to them. The link you gave specifies: > Norman Carlson, director of the Bureau of Prisons at the time of the Marion incident, said that ordering the permanent lockdown was the only way to deal with "a very small subset of the inmate population who show absolutely no concern for human life." Do I understand that everyone was potentially added 23 years to their sentence because of a few inmates they had nothing to do with? And the justification you give is that they're all dangerous, so it's ok? I imagine that seeing them as dangerous and violent comes from the crimes they committed that put them there. Is there no expectation at all that they would rehabilitate with their time there? I wonder how the US compares on these matters (especially the public expectation of rehabilitation) with other countries (re: "US justice system has serious flaws" as jonathanstrange put it).
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  > Do I understand that everyone was potentially added 23 years to their sentence because of a few inmates they had nothing to do with? And the justification you give is that they're all dangerous, so it's ok? No, you misunderstand that. Just because the inmates are locked down for 23 hours a day (allowed out for exercise) doesn't mean that they don't get released at the end of their sentence, when the judge ordered them to be released. When I came into the federal prison system, I flew from Seattle to Denver to Oklahoma City on Con-Air. At the stop in Denver, a boarding inmate was seated by me and struck up a cheerful conversation. He told me he was thrilled to be out and about, that he was from the Supermax in Colorado Springs. He said that going out for court was the only time he got to eat cheeseburgers. Said he had to try to kill a guard in order to get sent out. I never saw him again after that flight. I was in three prison riots. Literally backed in a corner and fearing for my life. After each one, the facility was locked down for a long time. Not just the few guys who were involved in the riot, but everyone. When there are security issues that threaten the safety of staff, all the inmates are locked down. There is no right to freedom in prison. I never was in a Supermax. I was in medium security the whole time. I got to eat cheeseburgers. I learned how to draft, both by hand on the board and in Autocad. I played a lot of D&D. But you would probably have had to been there to understand fully. Edit: Almost all inmates in Supermax are doing life sentences, so I don't know how their sentences can get extended.
  - arrrg 7y ago
    Seems to me that this creation of hopelessness could be a major factor in creating unsafe environments. Everyone who is locked up should have a reasonable chance of getting out within a reasonable timeframe.
    - Fjolsvith 7y ago
      I had a release date, and I could tell you how many days I had until then on any day. The people with life sentences usually have done things to get them.
Quekid5 7y ago
> I spent a year there after they downgraded it to a medium security facility. I don't believe you.

jolmg 7y ago

> They held the most dangerous, violent prisoners, and of course, kept them locked down for security reasons. How valid is that argument? It seems like you could use it to justify doing anything to them. The link you gave specifies: > Norman Carlson, director of the Bureau of Prisons at the time of the Marion incident, said that ordering the permanent lockdown was the only way to deal with "a very small subset of the inmate population who show absolutely no concern for human life." Do I understand that everyone was potentially added 23 years to their sentence because of a few inmates they had nothing to do with? And the justification you give is that they're all dangerous, so it's ok? I imagine that seeing them as dangerous and violent comes from the crimes they committed that put them there. Is there no expectation at all that they would rehabilitate with their time there? I wonder how the US compares on these matters (especially the public expectation of rehabilitation) with other countries (re: "US justice system has serious flaws" as jonathanstrange put it).

Fjolsvith 7y ago
> Do I understand that everyone was potentially added 23 years to their sentence because of a few inmates they had nothing to do with? And the justification you give is that they're all dangerous, so it's ok? No, you misunderstand that. Just because the inmates are locked down for 23 hours a day (allowed out for exercise) doesn't mean that they don't get released at the end of their sentence, when the judge ordered them to be released. When I came into the federal prison system, I flew from Seattle to Denver to Oklahoma City on Con-Air. At the stop in Denver, a boarding inmate was seated by me and struck up a cheerful conversation. He told me he was thrilled to be out and about, that he was from the Supermax in Colorado Springs. He said that going out for court was the only time he got to eat cheeseburgers. Said he had to try to kill a guard in order to get sent out. I never saw him again after that flight. I was in three prison riots. Literally backed in a corner and fearing for my life. After each one, the facility was locked down for a long time. Not just the few guys who were involved in the riot, but everyone. When there are security issues that threaten the safety of staff, all the inmates are locked down. There is no right to freedom in prison. I never was in a Supermax. I was in medium security the whole time. I got to eat cheeseburgers. I learned how to draft, both by hand on the board and in Autocad. I played a lot of D&D. But you would probably have had to been there to understand fully. Edit: Almost all inmates in Supermax are doing life sentences, so I don't know how their sentences can get extended.
- arrrg 7y ago
  Seems to me that this creation of hopelessness could be a major factor in creating unsafe environments. Everyone who is locked up should have a reasonable chance of getting out within a reasonable timeframe.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    I had a release date, and I could tell you how many days I had until then on any day. The people with life sentences usually have done things to get them.

Quekid5 7y ago

> I spent a year there after they downgraded it to a medium security facility. I don't believe you.