4 ms·

I don't know why are you downvoted, it's pretty much settled science. There are multiple papers on culture-gene co-evolution of individualism-collectivism and t

by Hitton 7y ago

I don't know why are you downvoted, it's pretty much settled science. There are multiple papers on culture-gene co-evolution of individualism-collectivism and the serotonin transporter gene. And individualism/collectivism is big part of any culture. It's hard to imagine something like Confucianism developing in highly individualistic western Europe.

rsynnott 7y ago
_Communism_ developed in highly individualistic Western Europe... As did fascism. I'm not convinced there's a magic Europe-individualistic gene.
- Hitton 7y ago
  Developed wasn't probably right word, spread would be better. European fascism wasn't particularly collectivist. And of course there is no magic individualistic gene, it's science. Nevertheless there is sizable evidence that greater or lesser prevalence of some genes (encoding serotonin and opioid transporters) influences both tendencies of individuals and culture among the population. I have posted enough to point you at the right resources in my last post, but if you want to actually educate yourself you can start with: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842692/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842692/
  - rsynnott 7y ago
    The only real common factor in Communist states (excluding those in Eastern Europe outside the former Russian Empire, which is a special case) is that the states which preceded them were very weak, and usually very geographically large, so that attempts by neighbors to stop it fell apart. There were multiple attempts at communist revolutions in Western Europe, but they were suppressed by strong states. And I don't think I buy that Western Europe _is_ highly individualistic anyway. Who would describe Germany or the Nordics in those terms? The UK and to some extend the Netherlands were very individualistic before it was cool, but both countries had extremely special geopolitical (and religious) conditions. Occam's razor suggests that those are more likely than genetic predeterminism.
jtr1 7y ago
The phrase "there are multiple papers" with no attribution should be considered as something analogous to a code smell.
- crimsonalucard 7y ago
  This is not true. If genes control physical features it does not make any sense to preclude genes from controlling mental features. From evidence we see that culture is flexible among different races but by the above logic alone there must be some genetic factor that we aren't able to measure yet. I wouldn't be surprised to find a paper that addresses this on some level. In fact did you know that in the field of anthropology. There has never been a scientific evidence found for a human culture or civilization where women in general dominated and took the overall leadership role? When it did happen it was temporary and the baton was handed back to the males voluntarily. Many anthropologists including my female professor who taught me the concepts at UCLA believe that the prevalence of this fact across multitudes of cultures may point to a biological phenomenon rather than a cultural one. Controversial, I know. I'm not advocating anything political here just science. Morally I feel both sexes should be judged on equal grounds but even believing this on a moral level, scientifically I cannot deny what has been observed, and much of academia feels the same way.
- Hitton 7y ago
  Do you consider statement about consensus on existence of global warming to be a "code smell" too? Do you always require list of papers when reading about it or are you capable to open google scholar and enter relevant phrase?
crimsonalucard 7y ago
There may be, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about macro scale natural selection seperate from biology. See below for a more detailed explanation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22423289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22423289 Also as an Asian you need to know in my opinion Asians in China tend to be more individualistic then europeans. It's more of a I don't give a shit attitude you do my thing and I do yours. They are thinking: "Don't waste my time with some ideological individual rights garbage I'm to individualistic to care for such things." People are rude in China and it's largely because they don't give a shit about you and are individualistic. Another way to put it is that an individual Asian won't fight for individual rights because he's too individualistic to care about community rights or government. It coincidentally is why in my mind you see a sort of collective phenomenon in China. Everyone acting to benefit themselves collectively benefit each other and leave a lot of room for a central government to take control because activism is a form or caring for something other than yourself. You'll also note that corruption is rampant in China which is literally the ultimate form of individualism where you harm society to benefit yourself.

by Hitton 7y ago

rsynnott 7y ago

_Communism_ developed in highly individualistic Western Europe... As did fascism. I'm not convinced there's a magic Europe-individualistic gene.

Hitton 7y ago
Developed wasn't probably right word, spread would be better. European fascism wasn't particularly collectivist. And of course there is no magic individualistic gene, it's science. Nevertheless there is sizable evidence that greater or lesser prevalence of some genes (encoding serotonin and opioid transporters) influences both tendencies of individuals and culture among the population. I have posted enough to point you at the right resources in my last post, but if you want to actually educate yourself you can start with: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842692/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842692/
- rsynnott 7y ago
  The only real common factor in Communist states (excluding those in Eastern Europe outside the former Russian Empire, which is a special case) is that the states which preceded them were very weak, and usually very geographically large, so that attempts by neighbors to stop it fell apart. There were multiple attempts at communist revolutions in Western Europe, but they were suppressed by strong states. And I don't think I buy that Western Europe _is_ highly individualistic anyway. Who would describe Germany or the Nordics in those terms? The UK and to some extend the Netherlands were very individualistic before it was cool, but both countries had extremely special geopolitical (and religious) conditions. Occam's razor suggests that those are more likely than genetic predeterminism.

jtr1 7y ago

The phrase "there are multiple papers" with no attribution should be considered as something analogous to a code smell.

crimsonalucard 7y ago
This is not true. If genes control physical features it does not make any sense to preclude genes from controlling mental features. From evidence we see that culture is flexible among different races but by the above logic alone there must be some genetic factor that we aren't able to measure yet. I wouldn't be surprised to find a paper that addresses this on some level. In fact did you know that in the field of anthropology. There has never been a scientific evidence found for a human culture or civilization where women in general dominated and took the overall leadership role? When it did happen it was temporary and the baton was handed back to the males voluntarily. Many anthropologists including my female professor who taught me the concepts at UCLA believe that the prevalence of this fact across multitudes of cultures may point to a biological phenomenon rather than a cultural one. Controversial, I know. I'm not advocating anything political here just science. Morally I feel both sexes should be judged on equal grounds but even believing this on a moral level, scientifically I cannot deny what has been observed, and much of academia feels the same way.
Hitton 7y ago
Do you consider statement about consensus on existence of global warming to be a "code smell" too? Do you always require list of papers when reading about it or are you capable to open google scholar and enter relevant phrase?

crimsonalucard 7y ago

There may be, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about macro scale natural selection seperate from biology. See below for a more detailed explanation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22423289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22423289 Also as an Asian you need to know in my opinion Asians in China tend to be more individualistic then europeans. It's more of a I don't give a shit attitude you do my thing and I do yours. They are thinking: "Don't waste my time with some ideological individual rights garbage I'm to individualistic to care for such things." People are rude in China and it's largely because they don't give a shit about you and are individualistic. Another way to put it is that an individual Asian won't fight for individual rights because he's too individualistic to care about community rights or government. It coincidentally is why in my mind you see a sort of collective phenomenon in China. Everyone acting to benefit themselves collectively benefit each other and leave a lot of room for a central government to take control because activism is a form or caring for something other than yourself. You'll also note that corruption is rampant in China which is literally the ultimate form of individualism where you harm society to benefit yourself.