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Research data tends to trump personal anecdotes, both yours and mine included. Several separate studies on the homeless have consensus. I did not say I was par

Research data tends to trump personal anecdotes, both yours and mine included. Several separate studies on the homeless have consensus. I did not say I was part of the “good homeless”. What I said was that the vast majority of the homeless aren’t chronically homeless and I was part of that non-chronic population. I’m also saying that for the chronically homeless, homelessness is just the symptom of the underlying problem of mental illness. This is another way of saying, “they didn’t get the right kind of help that they needed”. When people still can’t be high functioning with all the social safety nets available, we have to re-examine the strategy that isn’t working for them. I don’t feel the half measures you’ve described is enough for the mentally ill We’ve had this discussion before months ago. We can just agree to disagree.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
Studies get created by people with their own biases. Historically, IQ tests were used to insist that people of color were inferior to whites, not because it's true but because it served the agenda of racist whites. Social phenomenon are inherently hard to study in some kind of objective fashion. People will give the answers they know are expected of them in a world that is openly and unapologetically hostile to them. "How to lie with statistics" is one of my favorite works. Two people with different points of view can look at the exact same data and reach completely different conclusions about what the data means. Humans are incredibly prone to confirmation bias. Humans look for the data that supports their existing world view and hand wave off data that conflicts with it. This is a very well known phenomenon. Edit in response to your edit: We’ve had this discussion before months ago. We can just agree to disagree. Sure. I don't recall discussing it with before and I didn't start this discussion. You did. You chose to reply to something I said here, knowing we've discussed it before and we don't agree. So calls to "agree to disagree" sound a bit like I should just shut up and let you have the last word. I'm not rebutting every single comment in the discussion of the article I wrote. If you didn't want to actually talk to me in specific, you absolutely didn't have to.
- chaostheory 7y ago
  Let’s be very clear here since you like making insinuations for my comments. All I am saying is homelessness isn’t the real problem for the chronically homeless. It’s only a symptom. Consequently, society isn’t helping the chronically homeless ie the mentally ill effectively. I’m just saying society needs to drastically change their strategy of help by including more medical professionals and institutions into the mix. It’s hard to lie with data when mental illnesses such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are involved. Many of these people were discharged from institutions for financial reasons, which adds further credibility for the studies’ conclusions ie these people needed special medical help and society just kicked them out into the streets At no point did I call the chronically homeless “bad” which really angers me when you accused me of it. Your personal anecdotes are always interesting but they don’t give people the big picture
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    Let’s be very clear here since you like making insinuations for my comments. I wasn't making insinuations. I generally do my damnedest to try to phrase things as neutrally as possible and make sure, to the best of my ability, that I'm not making insinuations. You aren't required to engage me. If you don't like engaging me, then don't. You don't have to. You can just let your original comment stand on its own. Nothing I say erases anything you say. Readers here are generally intelligent people who can draw their own conclusions and can see that "These two people seriously don't agree." There's zero need to formally state that while continuing to engage. That's not an insinuation. It's a description of online social dynamics that isn't readily and immediately apparent to a lot of people because it runs counter to how in-person conversation works. (That includes me. It took me eons to figure that out.) This will be my last comment in reply to you. If you feel the need to reply further, that's up to you. I'm absolutely not looking to have some pointless fight.
    - chaostheory 7y ago
      You’re being disingenuous. Your insinuation was that I was trashing the chronically homeless. If you re-read your comments you clearly say that my comments were alluding to the “bad” homeless which is totally false. You don’t need to insult people you disagree with especially on HN. I need to engage your ideas because I do not feel they provide HN the larger picture on homelessness. Chronic homelessness is a mental health issue and not a primarily a housing issue

DoreenMichele 7y ago

Studies get created by people with their own biases. Historically, IQ tests were used to insist that people of color were inferior to whites, not because it's true but because it served the agenda of racist whites. Social phenomenon are inherently hard to study in some kind of objective fashion. People will give the answers they know are expected of them in a world that is openly and unapologetically hostile to them. "How to lie with statistics" is one of my favorite works. Two people with different points of view can look at the exact same data and reach completely different conclusions about what the data means. Humans are incredibly prone to confirmation bias. Humans look for the data that supports their existing world view and hand wave off data that conflicts with it. This is a very well known phenomenon. Edit in response to your edit: We’ve had this discussion before months ago. We can just agree to disagree. Sure. I don't recall discussing it with before and I didn't start this discussion. You did. You chose to reply to something I said here, knowing we've discussed it before and we don't agree. So calls to "agree to disagree" sound a bit like I should just shut up and let you have the last word. I'm not rebutting every single comment in the discussion of the article I wrote. If you didn't want to actually talk to me in specific, you absolutely didn't have to.

chaostheory 7y ago
Let’s be very clear here since you like making insinuations for my comments. All I am saying is homelessness isn’t the real problem for the chronically homeless. It’s only a symptom. Consequently, society isn’t helping the chronically homeless ie the mentally ill effectively. I’m just saying society needs to drastically change their strategy of help by including more medical professionals and institutions into the mix. It’s hard to lie with data when mental illnesses such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are involved. Many of these people were discharged from institutions for financial reasons, which adds further credibility for the studies’ conclusions ie these people needed special medical help and society just kicked them out into the streets At no point did I call the chronically homeless “bad” which really angers me when you accused me of it. Your personal anecdotes are always interesting but they don’t give people the big picture
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Let’s be very clear here since you like making insinuations for my comments. I wasn't making insinuations. I generally do my damnedest to try to phrase things as neutrally as possible and make sure, to the best of my ability, that I'm not making insinuations. You aren't required to engage me. If you don't like engaging me, then don't. You don't have to. You can just let your original comment stand on its own. Nothing I say erases anything you say. Readers here are generally intelligent people who can draw their own conclusions and can see that "These two people seriously don't agree." There's zero need to formally state that while continuing to engage. That's not an insinuation. It's a description of online social dynamics that isn't readily and immediately apparent to a lot of people because it runs counter to how in-person conversation works. (That includes me. It took me eons to figure that out.) This will be my last comment in reply to you. If you feel the need to reply further, that's up to you. I'm absolutely not looking to have some pointless fight.
  - chaostheory 7y ago
    You’re being disingenuous. Your insinuation was that I was trashing the chronically homeless. If you re-read your comments you clearly say that my comments were alluding to the “bad” homeless which is totally false. You don’t need to insult people you disagree with especially on HN. I need to engage your ideas because I do not feel they provide HN the larger picture on homelessness. Chronic homelessness is a mental health issue and not a primarily a housing issue