6 ms·

I am an Astros fan and baseball fanatic, so I have a lot to say here as do most people that fit in one or both of the above designations. I'm getting to the th

I am an Astros fan and baseball fanatic, so I have a lot to say here as do most people that fit in one or both of the above designations. I'm getting to the thread a little late so it's possible (probable) that no one will read this but I feel a bit better letting it out. 1. We cheated and got caught. On one hand the penalties are pretty severe. Draft picks mean that in 5-8 years we may be awful again. AJ Hinch was a DAMN good manager and when the Mets hire him in a year I'm going to be sad. Jose Altuve - for whom there is no evidence that he cheated - is one of the best hitters of the last decade and may never make the HOF b/c of this. The penalties individually and collectively are not small. On the other hand, I agree that more punishment could have been handed out. 2. MLB has done a TERRIBLE job explaining that not only was immunity essential for getting the truth but also that punishing players would wind up in a YEARS-long dispute with the Player's Association. Fans and the sport alike get all pissy that there is no official record of steriod users...well immunity wasn't offered. Can't have it both ways. 3. MLB is also shooting itself in the foot not releasing the Red Sox report during the height of the Astros story. It is probable that the 2018 champs will ALSO be exposed as cheaters. ANd they had the MVP that year as well. I will smirk at least a little when the Astros hatred starts to abait in June just in time for the Red Sox to re-kindle the story. 3. I have friends that work in Baseball. Of course it's speculation but 3 of them independent of each other have told me that the 3 teams that cheat the most are Houston, LAD, and Arizona. ANd all 3 conversations ended with the punchline of how little the Diamondbacks have to show for their cheating. 4. The sanctimony in baseball is comical AND sad. No sport likes to eat it's young like baseball. The same reporters that used the 1998 home run race to their benefit now vote against steroid players getting into the HOF. Anything to protect your 2 inches in the Sunday edition, fellas. LOL 5. Being mindful of #1, anyone that thinks the cheating is limited to Houston, Boston or just a couple teams is sniffing glue. ALL teams and players creep as close to the line as possible. Are there players that refuse to participate? ABSOLUTELY. Are there teams that play every game on the up and up? No way. There is simply too much at stake and the transfer of players and execs and coaches between teams means that the knowledge of skirting the rules isn't limited to Houston. 5b. You want examples? The team that closes the dome to induce more short fly balls. The team that lets the grass grow longer to make grounders in the infield slow down. The team that overwaters the dirt in the base-paths to slow runners. on and on and on. 6. MLB allowing ANY current-game film in the clubhouse is so stupid as to defy words. So a batter can walk into the clubhouse and review the at-bat he completed 30 seconds ago to look at pitch sequences and locations.....that's okay? Absolutely STUPID. Suggested result: eliminate replay on anything but scoring plays. Remove replay in the clubhouse and prohibit players from leaving the dugout except for bio-breaks with an MLB escort. 7. Finally, if anything ever drives me away from baseball it will be this: the "inside" baseball talk. Reporters and players and former players that patronize fans with things like "you wouldn't understand..." or "there is a game within the game..." A sport that allows/supports putting a fastball in a guy's ribs if he preens after a home run. A sport that says SOME version of sign stealing is fine BUT other versions are not.

remarkEon 7y ago
Re #3, care to point to any evidence of LAD and Arizona shenanigans? I follow baseball pretty closely and I guess I haven't seen any. We can throw accusations all we want (#5, and #5b seems suspicious because doing something like closing the dome would have the same effect on the balls the home team hits too). Agreed on #6.
- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  Different pitchers have different hit patterns — there are ground ball pitchers, etc. Excessively watering the dirt and closing the dome aren’t really cheating, just standard gamesmanship.
  - goatherders 7y ago
    This is what drives me nuts about baseball. Yes, you are right. That is standard gamesmanship. AND THAT IN ITSELF IS LUDICROUS. What other sport allows the field of play to be modified to fit one style of play or player? Can you imagine a basketball team raising the rims 2 feet so that Giannis couldn't dunk AND IT BEING ALLOWED? Or a football team growing the grass to 8" so that a team with fast wide receivers would be slowed? To me, baseball's rich (sarcasm) history of allowing random-sized fields and wall heights and open or closed roofs and watered or unwatered infields means that the more Circus-like elements of the sport are allowable. I too like some of this "gamesmanship". But I have a hard time understanding the difference of the allowed gamesmanship (stealing signs from second) and the disallowed and disgraceful gamesmanship (using ALLOWED in-clubhouse video to determine pitch sequences).
- goatherders 7y ago
  None, although here is a Yankees players detailing how they stole signs: https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/02/21/mark-teixiera-yankees-sign-stealing-nothing-like-carlos-beltrans-astros/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/02/21/mark-teix.... I simply mentioned that people I know who work for MLB teams have said such things. I already stated that I think every team cheats to some degree. That was my larger point- no team is playing the game by the rules. The Astros are the most egregious that we know of. I suspect the Red Sox report will be similarly damning. But the malfesence isn't limited to those two teams. The architect of the scheme played for 7 teams in 20 years...hard to believe he came up the plan in his 20th and final season.

remarkEon 7y ago

Re #3, care to point to any evidence of LAD and Arizona shenanigans? I follow baseball pretty closely and I guess I haven't seen any. We can throw accusations all we want (#5, and #5b seems suspicious because doing something like closing the dome would have the same effect on the balls the home team hits too). Agreed on #6.

SamReidHughes 7y ago
Different pitchers have different hit patterns — there are ground ball pitchers, etc. Excessively watering the dirt and closing the dome aren’t really cheating, just standard gamesmanship.
- goatherders 7y ago
  This is what drives me nuts about baseball. Yes, you are right. That is standard gamesmanship. AND THAT IN ITSELF IS LUDICROUS. What other sport allows the field of play to be modified to fit one style of play or player? Can you imagine a basketball team raising the rims 2 feet so that Giannis couldn't dunk AND IT BEING ALLOWED? Or a football team growing the grass to 8" so that a team with fast wide receivers would be slowed? To me, baseball's rich (sarcasm) history of allowing random-sized fields and wall heights and open or closed roofs and watered or unwatered infields means that the more Circus-like elements of the sport are allowable. I too like some of this "gamesmanship". But I have a hard time understanding the difference of the allowed gamesmanship (stealing signs from second) and the disallowed and disgraceful gamesmanship (using ALLOWED in-clubhouse video to determine pitch sequences).
goatherders 7y ago
None, although here is a Yankees players detailing how they stole signs: https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/02/21/mark-teixiera-yankees-sign-stealing-nothing-like-carlos-beltrans-astros/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/02/21/mark-teix.... I simply mentioned that people I know who work for MLB teams have said such things. I already stated that I think every team cheats to some degree. That was my larger point- no team is playing the game by the rules. The Astros are the most egregious that we know of. I suspect the Red Sox report will be similarly damning. But the malfesence isn't limited to those two teams. The architect of the scheme played for 7 teams in 20 years...hard to believe he came up the plan in his 20th and final season.