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If you wouldn't mind posting a paragraph what coaching an esports team is like and how you feel about the current state of esports, I'd love to hear about it fr

by wpasc 7y ago

If you wouldn't mind posting a paragraph what coaching an esports team is like and how you feel about the current state of esports, I'd love to hear about it from an insider!

Proziam 7y ago
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you were hoping for but I'm happy to answer questions! On coaching: Coaching is probably the best and worst job in esports, depending on the day. It's also a role that is completely misunderstood by the management of most organizations, to the extent that coaches have had their decision-making hamstrung by management. This is getting better as time goes on, and I expect that it will eventually get to a similar place as traditional sports. With all of that out there, coaching is just straight-up fun. It's awesome to be able to see people improve over time and to pull together all your resources to try new things and push to a higher level. Between playing, coaching, and managing, I feel coaching is the most rewarding. On esports: I'm honestly torn about the state of esports at the moment. On the one hand, I'm very bullish on its future and happy to see that it's come as far as it has (it wasn't anything like this back when I first fell in love with it in the early MLG days - about 2004?). On the other hand, I feel like a majority of the money coming in is straight up dumb. The Overwatch League is probably the best example. The moment it was announced, I pulled the plug on the game entirely because it was clear there was no way to make it work the way it was 'supposed to.' However, if people continue to come into the space and invest in solid fundamentals (quality talent, management, and support) rather than fads (cough team Ember...), then the esports industry is going to thrive. In my opinion, it will become the 'new sports' but without the baggage of so much legacy. Esports has the potential to evolve and push the envelope in so many areas that the way we absorb 'sports' entertainment is going to change dramatically over the next decades. (EDIT: To expand on the overwatch question) The math behind the Overwatch Scene doesn't make much sense. If you compare the amount of capital drawn in vs the amount of money the average team can make, it's an extremely high-risk / low reward ecosystem to be involved in. That said, there aren't many organizations that actually turn a profit right now, and the valuation of everything is dubious at best. Almost every Overwatch player I know at this point is looking forward to Project A and praying, but only time will tell how that plays out.
- FreezerburnV 7y ago
  Can you expand a bit on why you pulled the plug because of there being “no way to make it work like it’s ‘supposed to’”? I’m actively working hard to improve at Overwatch to try and break into the tiered competitive scene, so any reservations about its future are of great interest to me and figuring out whether or not it’s a ship to move from at some point or not.
  - Spellman 7y ago
    As with most eSports, the key metric is how much inflow there is and how much outflow. I'm not familiar enough with Overwatch specifically, but it sounds like there isn't enough income and prize pools to go around. The top team may earn a decent wage and splashy amounts, but there isn't enough at the 2nd or top 10 rung to support a thriving ecosystem longer-term. I'm more familiar with the LoL/DotA scene where there's enough smaller tournaments and the prize pool+sponsorships are enough to cover a wide range of top talent. Yeah, there's a lot of hype about winning the #1 Internationals, but that's only for one team out of hundreds that play. Or compare to how LoL is set up with their leagues where the top X teams get to play consistently and take in a steady income. Plus their broadcasting system to bring in more income to support the scene. Similarly, you can look at stream numbers to get a feel for other income available to the players. In general, without a healthy "middle-class" and "upper middle-class" of players to bring excitement and income, you lack the buzz and support to build top-tier competition longer term. And those don't exist unless there are ways for them to keep playing and monetize their skills. Fortunately, if you're grinding up the FPS ladders, most FPS games tend to have more transferable skills letting you move from game to game more easily than some genres. Ninja is pretty famous for being the best at Fortnite, but he was a pro PUBG player and pro Halo 3 player before that. So it's not uncommon to see FPS pro players shift between the more in vogue FPS game of the time. (Caveat that not all FPS games reward the same skills and all that, CS is not TF2 is not CoD is not Fortnite is not Overwatch)
  - JRKrause 7y ago
    I am no means an expert but my take was that many people from grass-roots esports backgrounds balk at the numbers set by ATVI for OWL team licensing (20mil for a team iirc?) and associated player salaries (reaching upwards of 200K in some instances). Certainly in it's current state, team merch/tickets sales are nowhere close to recuperating these expenses from an investment standpoint. I would argue that these complaints aren't understanding the 'meta' of capital investment in the current climate.

by wpasc 7y ago

If you wouldn't mind posting a paragraph what coaching an esports team is like and how you feel about the current state of esports, I'd love to hear about it from an insider!

Proziam 7y ago

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you were hoping for but I'm happy to answer questions! On coaching: Coaching is probably the best and worst job in esports, depending on the day. It's also a role that is completely misunderstood by the management of most organizations, to the extent that coaches have had their decision-making hamstrung by management. This is getting better as time goes on, and I expect that it will eventually get to a similar place as traditional sports. With all of that out there, coaching is just straight-up fun. It's awesome to be able to see people improve over time and to pull together all your resources to try new things and push to a higher level. Between playing, coaching, and managing, I feel coaching is the most rewarding. On esports: I'm honestly torn about the state of esports at the moment. On the one hand, I'm very bullish on its future and happy to see that it's come as far as it has (it wasn't anything like this back when I first fell in love with it in the early MLG days - about 2004?). On the other hand, I feel like a majority of the money coming in is straight up dumb. The Overwatch League is probably the best example. The moment it was announced, I pulled the plug on the game entirely because it was clear there was no way to make it work the way it was 'supposed to.' However, if people continue to come into the space and invest in solid fundamentals (quality talent, management, and support) rather than fads (cough team Ember...), then the esports industry is going to thrive. In my opinion, it will become the 'new sports' but without the baggage of so much legacy. Esports has the potential to evolve and push the envelope in so many areas that the way we absorb 'sports' entertainment is going to change dramatically over the next decades. (EDIT: To expand on the overwatch question) The math behind the Overwatch Scene doesn't make much sense. If you compare the amount of capital drawn in vs the amount of money the average team can make, it's an extremely high-risk / low reward ecosystem to be involved in. That said, there aren't many organizations that actually turn a profit right now, and the valuation of everything is dubious at best. Almost every Overwatch player I know at this point is looking forward to Project A and praying, but only time will tell how that plays out.

FreezerburnV 7y ago
Can you expand a bit on why you pulled the plug because of there being “no way to make it work like it’s ‘supposed to’”? I’m actively working hard to improve at Overwatch to try and break into the tiered competitive scene, so any reservations about its future are of great interest to me and figuring out whether or not it’s a ship to move from at some point or not.
- Spellman 7y ago
  As with most eSports, the key metric is how much inflow there is and how much outflow. I'm not familiar enough with Overwatch specifically, but it sounds like there isn't enough income and prize pools to go around. The top team may earn a decent wage and splashy amounts, but there isn't enough at the 2nd or top 10 rung to support a thriving ecosystem longer-term. I'm more familiar with the LoL/DotA scene where there's enough smaller tournaments and the prize pool+sponsorships are enough to cover a wide range of top talent. Yeah, there's a lot of hype about winning the #1 Internationals, but that's only for one team out of hundreds that play. Or compare to how LoL is set up with their leagues where the top X teams get to play consistently and take in a steady income. Plus their broadcasting system to bring in more income to support the scene. Similarly, you can look at stream numbers to get a feel for other income available to the players. In general, without a healthy "middle-class" and "upper middle-class" of players to bring excitement and income, you lack the buzz and support to build top-tier competition longer term. And those don't exist unless there are ways for them to keep playing and monetize their skills. Fortunately, if you're grinding up the FPS ladders, most FPS games tend to have more transferable skills letting you move from game to game more easily than some genres. Ninja is pretty famous for being the best at Fortnite, but he was a pro PUBG player and pro Halo 3 player before that. So it's not uncommon to see FPS pro players shift between the more in vogue FPS game of the time. (Caveat that not all FPS games reward the same skills and all that, CS is not TF2 is not CoD is not Fortnite is not Overwatch)
- JRKrause 7y ago
  I am no means an expert but my take was that many people from grass-roots esports backgrounds balk at the numbers set by ATVI for OWL team licensing (20mil for a team iirc?) and associated player salaries (reaching upwards of 200K in some instances). Certainly in it's current state, team merch/tickets sales are nowhere close to recuperating these expenses from an investment standpoint. I would argue that these complaints aren't understanding the 'meta' of capital investment in the current climate.